More lies about Israel and hospitals

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by RWKindaguy, Nov 21, 2023.

  1. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    You have been lied to so much you don't even realize what is or isn't a lie. Fyi it is possible to both "steal land" and "win" a war. Israel won the 1967 war against the Arab frontline states (Egypt, Syria Jordan); no one I have read here disputes that. But much of the world no longer views territory acquired by force of arms (especially when against the wishes of those living on the territory) as legitimate. And when property is acquired illegitimately, some people will call it "stealing." You can call it what you wish, but that has nothing to do with someone lying.

    I won't even call people like you who want to paint their enemies as mainly crazed fanatics looking to kill and expel all Jews from the "river to the sea" as necessarily liars. Ignorant? Misinformed? Sure. Liars? It depends if they realize what they are saying is blatantly false.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
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  2. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Gantz said that to the south Israel refugees following Oct 7th.

    More misinformation, Israel fought Jordan and Egypt cities, they regarded themselves as part of the Arab nation, neither Egypt or Jordan recognized the Arabs living in Ramallah, Jerusalem or Gaza as indipendant, that concept was only born after Israel took over again in 1967 when those who call themselves "palestinains" once again thought they had noting to lose.....

    I could count dead Germans and dead Africans in YOUR wars and call you all murderes as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
  3. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    There are land disputes all over the world, many of then violent.
    You live in a country that was and maybe still is under heavy sanctions, right or wrong YOU know the the world judgment is not always a fair one, you thought that Iran needs to proceed with its nuclear plans regardless of world view, its a national project that will secure Iran and for that you are willing to pay a price.

    My ppl got butchered in most heinous way, like ISIS barbarism, right next door to me.

    Now, what did you want to tell me about the world again ?
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Here you are alluding to one of the lies you have probably been exposed to repeatedly.

    fyi, Iran is, remains and has been under the strictest sanctions imposed against a nation. Those sanctions affect every type of trade imaginable. The only difference compared to the Trump era is that Iran (whose oil exports were cut to virtually zero during the Trump years) has found Chinese buyers willing to ignore aspects of the US sanctions with the Biden administration not making this a big issue. But guess what? Even that isn't much of a concession to Iran, since the proceeds from these oil sales go into bank accounts Iran can't access easily or at all. Instead the real beneficiary of this "lax" enforcement are western consumers who don't feel the added pinch from lesser supply of oil during a time when demand is relatively high.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
  5. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    We argue even when we agree on something ....
     
  6. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Actual knowledge of international law would greatly improve your posts, methinks. In your defense, all anti-Zionists and assorted fellow travelers bravely ignore anything that doesn't fit their narrative, and if they can't find something that fit, they invent stuff.

    What international law really says is that is not admissible to gain territory through wars of aggression. That's why the international community never recognized the annexation of Judea and Samaria by Jordan as legitimate, by the way.

    Dumping just one term from the law permits anti-Zionists to pretend that Israel is constantly violating international law, but it also makes them look really, really, really dumb.
     
  7. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Although I am a lawyer, and one with extensive experience in international commercial arbitration and at least passing knowledge and experience with public international law, I am not here to debate the latter with you. Debating public international law with a partisan is particularly a waste of time since there is no ultimate arbiter of such issues whose verdict, opinion, or pronouncement Israel or an Israeli partisan would accept.

    courthousenews.com/israels-planned-annexation-will-violate-international-law/
    The World Court Rules that Israel's West Bank Barrier Violates International Law
    ...
     
  8. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Patience. It will take a while.
     
  9. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In Israel there is a lot of calls for investigation, in a press there is lot of details about military failures and many IDF generals publicly said - yes we failed.

    It is a fake news believed by lazy people that Israel created Hamas - how Hamas is created is described on Wikipedia and other internet pages.
    Hamas was created in 1987 by sheik Yassin originally as charity organization. In 2005 Israeli prime minister Sharon decided that Israel will withdraw from Gaza, remove all Israeli settlements and Gaza will have a free democratic elections, with hope that PLO will win the election and PLO will start a peace process with Israel. Unfortunately PLO in Gaza was a corrupted organization and Hamas won. Hamas in its chapter refuse to make any peace with Israel. In 2006 Netanyahu became Israeli prime minister and he was opposed to any peace, the same as Hamas - so he decided not to destroy Hamas, but keep it alive in opposition to PLO.
    As to thousands of Palestinians killed - I don't trust Hamas casualties numbers. For example after bombing Al-Ahli Baptist Hospital - Hamas immediately blamed Israel for killing about 500 civilians, while many sources claimed it was a Palestinian missile which destroyed hospital. So who killed these 500 Palestinians, Israel or Palestinians? Also it is hard for me believe that not even one Hamas soldier was killed.
    Yes, too many civilians died in Gaza, but do you have a solution how to prevent it, when Hamas keeps offices, ammunition stores and tunnel entries in civilian buildings?


    Nope, I don't see any hope if Hamas will survive and will still keep its aim to create a Muslim country instead of Israel and if Israel will not agree to create a Palestinian state.
    But I remember that there is a peace between Germany and European countries and recently German soldiers had exercises together with Israelis - so who knows - sometimes miracles happened.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The fact that they do not have a free market is serious. Israel allowing Gaza to sell to Israel when Israel chooses to allow that is very much NOT a free market.

    The purposeful damage to the economy of Gaza IS one of the aspects of the Israeli war on Gaza. Blockades are universally recognized as war.

    The data concerning food insecurity in Gaza comes from UN aid organizations and others who measure this kind of problem in Gaza and other world locations.
     
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The civilians were "sticking around" HOSPITALS.

    When Israel blows up apartment buildings, where do you think the survivors should "run"??

    And, it is ISRAEL that has been continuously waging war on Gaza for the last decades without pause. This one terrorist attack is certainly unacceptable in every way, but it is NOT the start of the war waged by Israel on Gaza.
     
  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Hamas has long said that the PLO is in charge of Palestinian negotiations for settlement of the war and that they will abide by that settlement.

    There is one Palestine. There can't be two separate negotiations.

    This is one of the reasons that Netanyahu worked to make the unity government of President Abbas impossible through a range of acts designed for that outcome.

    This was a clear opportunity to end Hamas. It would have defunded Hamas by ending their collections of border crossing fees. It would have taken away Hamas control of charity within Gaza - a reason for Hamas being accepted. It would have included free elections for seats in the unity government, not reserving seats for the existing Gaza government of Hamas. It would have required representatives to sign onto the unity government direction of resolution by negotiation only - as has been the direction of President Abbas.

    One might even wonder of Netanyahu WANTED Hamas as it offers an opportunity for Israel to simply subsume Gaza under the claim of security.
     
  13. USVet

    USVet Banned

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    All of the Arab "news" networks routinely lie. Seriously, they are just trash.
     
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  14. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You would be 100% accurate to make that claim, imho. 56 years ago, Martin Luther King called America "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world." Today I would replace the word "violence" with "terrorism." Africans were murdered, maimed, and displaced by the millions during the first centuries of this country, and the African continent is the next target in the US/Wall Street bullseye today.

    https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/violence-democratic-republic-congo
     
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  15. georgephillip

    georgephillip Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why has Israel refused to comply with UNSC 242?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

    "'Operative Paragraph One 'Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

    (i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
    (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.'[4]"

    Do you have any doubts Israel intends to ethnically cleanse all non-Jews from Gaza and the West Bank?
     
  16. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    8 year old and a 14 year boys deliberately shot dead by single bullets in Jenin by IDF. The 8 year old shot in the back of his head while he was running away. Not in any crossfire . Disgusting
     
  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe that now or during the last decades Israel has been improving the view of Israel?

    I'd point out that the US view of defeating terrorism is that the local population must be the defenders against terrorism in their midst.

    I strongly doubt that the last 20 years of war against Gaza OR the recent slaughter of thousands of Gazan children is a move toward acceptance of Israel.

    Plus, this is not increasing tolerance of Israel internationally, either.
     
  18. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree - there is no chance the image of Israel will be improved.
    For example, after Hamas attacked Israel killed about 1200 Israelis and kidnapped more than 200 men, women and children we saw huge demonstrations with slogans 'From the River to the Sea Palestine Will be Free' and no slogans like: 'From the River to the Sea kidnapped children must be Free' or 'From the River to the Sea kidnapped old women must be Free'.

    Why? This joke explains it:
    A motorcyclist was riding by the zoo, when he saw a little girl leaning into the lion’s cage. Suddenly, the lion grabbed her by the cuff of her jacket and tried to pull her inside to devour her, right before the eyes of her screaming parents.
    The biker jumped off his bike, ran to the cage and hit the lion square on the nose with a powerful punch. Whimpering from pain, the lion jumped back and let go of the girl. The biker then took her to her terrified parents, who thanked him endlessly.
    A reporter saw the whole scene, and addressing the biker, said, “Sir, this was the most gallant and bravest thing I saw a man do in my whole life.”
    “Really, it was nothing,” said the biker, “The lion was behind bars. I just saw this little kid in danger, and acted as I felt right.”
    “I noticed a patch on your jacket,” said the journalist.
    “Yeah, I ride with an Israeli motorcycle club,” the biker replied.
    “Well, I’ll make sure this won’t go unnoticed. I’m a journalist, you know, and tomorrow’s papers will have this on the front page.”
    The following morning the biker bought the paper to see if it indeed brought out the news of his actions. On the front page was the headline: “Israeli gang member assaults African immigrant and steals his lunch.”
     
  19. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Are you calling the former Israeli Prime Minister, a terrorist? Or did you mean Will Readmore, who'd posted the video, & repeated the PM's claim?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
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  20. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    It is different. The NUMBER of civilian deaths, to combatant deaths, is inordinately high. Israel has killed more U.N. officials, than Hamas leaders, in their campaign. Which is why practically evey nation on the planet has raised objections, in case you hadn't noticed. Even our government has said that the civilian death toll has been too high.

    Or did you assume that all the complaints were due to "anti-Semitism?"
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
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  21. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    They are gangsters, the Israelis that is.
     
  22. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Your ppl were butchered and burnt to death but are you willing to admit that the IDF could have been responsible for perhaps one of these deaths?
     
  23. Esau

    Esau Well-Known Member

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    Lol gilos acts like we are some kind of far right hypocrites. Of course we know that USA is just as bad as Israel, they are one and the same.

    Smh.
     
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  24. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    True. Gaza is just like a caged prison. Lions and other creatures should not be imprisoned. Lions and other creatures should not have to rely on humans just in order to survive in a cage. Zoos are inherently cruel
     
  25. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That is one of the startling aspects here.

    The US has all these platitudes about representation, democracy, free market, freedom of speech, what constitutes atrocities and genocide, equality, antiapartheid, etc.

    Then, we support ISRAEL with vetoes and threats in the UN and military equipment and aid to Israel to slaughter Palestinians and make war on them for decades as they sit in their Israeli prison called Gaza.

    Who the HELL have WE decided to become?

    What are other nations supposed to think we stand for? What do WE think we stand for?
     

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