First thought, the cops up at Port Hedland have normalised a view of Indigenous people taken into custody when apparently under the influence as being okay to dehumanise them. I read the Coroner's remarks. I saw the video here - https://www.theguardian.com/austral...footage-shows-inhumane-police-treatment-video - my response to the first part of the video where Ms Dhu is allowed to flop around like a rag doll is that the police were very callous. Very callous indeed. Not brutal, just callous. Brutal usually follows the initial arrest where there has been a fairly big dust-up and biffage. Callous comes later. You might disagree but I understand the brutal during a fight. Been there myself. Him or me type of thing. You use everything you've got to avoid going under yourself. Biffage back in the cells is not forgiveable. But callous, I think it's worse. It's cold-bloodedly treating a person like a piece of (*)(*)(*)(*). Now the Royal Commission is being brought up again. My memory of the media commentary surrounding the incidents that led to the Royal Commission (think John Pat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Pat- ) was that brutality was being used and in John Pat's case it allegedly caused his death. Some respectable media outlets claimed or at least dropped really big hints that cops were murdering Indigenous people in custody. That was eventually dispelled by the Royal Commission itself. It wasn't murder that was going on but it was the normalisation of treating Indigenous people in custody like (*)(*)(*)(*). It seems a bit strange to look back and think that before the Royal Commission custodial practices were pretty bloody negligent. And so we find in 2014 in Port Hedland it was normal for the police to treat Ms Dhu like a piece of (*)(*)(*)(*). Too (*)(*)(*)(*)ing sad for words.
So far so good. I was so bloody disappointed at what I saw on the video I had to make a comment to try and understand why it happened. I thought through it and my conclusion was as I described. In the aftermath I hope that Karl Callaghan, who is a very smart man, is able to get WA coppers to think about their humanity as they do their job. And I hope that every other copper in Aus thinks about it.
Mate I understand how you feel, I cop it from the other side of the fence. When you see this too often, and then there is the other 10+ we don't see, it's not hard to see why some get angry, turn to drugs or crime, it's a self perpetuating problem. I really don't know an answer, but exasperating the problem isn't it.
Watched the video and have some comments. It is tragic that she died but those police are obviously not trained medical technicians. Police also have to deal with liars everyday and I don't say that without some experience with the type of people police have to deal with. They will naturally approach claims with scepticism. They took her to the hospital 3 times? How is that negligent? Maybe some training to identify real medical problems would help.
No they're not medics, very true. And they can't be expected to behave as same - the reasonable person test would uphold that I think. What is disappointing are the assumptions everyone made. It's too easy for coppers to develop a particular shared attitude when it comes to people in custody. You lock up the same people all the bloody time for the same reason (drunkenness usually - albeit thankfully in some jurisdictions that's not criminal) and you see the same behaviours from the same people. It's easy to dehumanise people like that. It's also very easy to forget the powerlessness of people in custody. For the police officer it's just a part of the job. For the person being held it's being completely at the mercy of the custodians. I don't think police officers understand it from the point of view of the prisoner (that's what they're called, even if they're not convicted yet). I think it would be fair to say that before the RC the concept of "duty of care" was pretty well unknown to police charged with caring for persons in custody.
I understand totally where they (cops) are coming from, it's a normal human behavior. We all have our own peculiar take on things, but that is a personal opinion. Doctors have personal opinions, Solicitors have personal opinions, Judges have personal opinions, DoCS have personal opinions and Police and Corrections Services have personal opinions. None of these people however are in their professions for their personal opinions, just the opposite. It is a hard thing to do I admit, but if you can't do it get another job, simple as that. We have different expectations from these different groups and that is not right, they all have a major role in the lives of people and what should be done is best practices taking into consideration the duty of care. One particular role I personally know, one I haven't mentioned, our armed services. Personal opinion cannot take precedence. I regards to the police, I think it is slowly getting better, I do think we need to look at things from a different angle. Police should be called "Keepers of the peace" or "Peace officers", not "Law enforcement. It is not their job to literally enforce the law but to maintain it, to remove those that could or are breaking laws to a place where the society will be and feel safe until such time as the judiciary can decide their guilt or not. There is also a role of maintaining public safety where they have powers to act under strict conditions, or what should be strict conditions. Like to remove the licence and keys from a driver over a specified limit. They should be able to remove and secure people that are putting people at risk. Remove and secure does not mean judge and punish. My partner who is an exemplary citizen, her sons also are upstanding citizens are in constant fear of mistaken identity or being subject to racism by police, they live in fear of their guardians, this is wrong in so many respects. It is not without cause either, I personally have been subject to racism just for associating with them.
Maybe this shouldn't be discussed in this thread, but I am struggling with this view. Wasn't it clear that the invasion of Iraq was based on a lie? Don't our soldiers read the paper, or watch the news? I would have expected that one or the other would have said no, back in 2003/2004. But then, you are right, we all belong to groups and take action accordingly. Pretty sad.... regards
If enough see that it is wrong it will travel up the chain and can influence political opinion, no one wants a military coup, and I know we have come as close to having one as I would like to see back in 1975, I was a sergeant then and the Colonel's driver so I had some insight into the thoughts of the upper echelons. Love it or loath it we need a military and it needs to be such that personal opinions are only used when and where appropriate. It is not rare for senior officers to debrief junior ones to get their views, but in general it is obey or it's treason, it has to be that way, we just need to be sure we have the correct checks and balances, and believe it or not there are a lot of them already in the Australian Military.
Yeap, I know what you mean, and do understand what you say, but humans are more inclined to follow their group than to come to their own conclusions. I also served (a long time ago) but left the army when I realized we are not only there to defend our soil .... Do we need an army? Hell yeah, but under a different augury ........... Regards
sometimes to defend your soil you have to fight elsewhere, Iraq however was not one of them, nor was Vietnam, they were purely political
http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/12/20/15/43/gun-toting-qld-cop-found-guilty How do they keep getting away with it until it get's out of hand, this could have ended ages ago, the police are a law unto themselves.
