MSM Silent on US Car Being Highest Volume in 2023

Discussion in 'Science' started by WillReadmore, Jan 1, 2024.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Reduction in government support for EV purchasers starts TODAY.

    The reason for that support was to help manufacturers compete with Tesla.

    The US even chose a charge plug standard that didn't match the one Tesla was using - another way for the US to try to slow Tesla.

    Now, there is the US standard and there is the Tesla standard that everybody is going to be using.


    The reduction in subsidies will make it harder for legacy US auto to compete.
     
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  2. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you may be right.

    It's looking now like the early adopters are all tapped out and the EV market is slowing substantially with the domestics slowing their investments, in some cases putting them on hold indefinitely.

    The bloom seems to be off of EVs. Now if we can just knock EPA out of the game, which it looks increasingly like Chevron's fall in June just may do, the EV push will fall flat on its face. And it seems the domestics, who have a long history with our government and a whole big building of lawyers, just may be betting on it.

    Of course, if EPA's authority falls that should take out Tesla's recent ability to turn a profit.

    Well, it was fun while it lasted.

    Well, not really. More like funny while it burns to the ground.

    Enjoy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2024
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Sales of EVs has been increasing at a strong rate in the USA.

    Tesla is making a good profit, unlike the majority who lose money per sale.

    You can't measure this by noting the struggles of ICE manufacturers.
     
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  4. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes you can.

    Tesla's profits are from the EPA compliance scheme (ie.- not having ICE vehicles to use their credits on).

    And it seems to me that ICE manufacturers aren't struggling. They're just slowing down. Cause June's coming.
     
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  5. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Tesla is also the only company not unionized. Probably has something to do with profitability.
     
  6. Joe knows

    Joe knows Well-Known Member

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    They wouldn’t fit my lifestyle, not that I hate them but they won’t work for me
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    nor me, too old and my next used vehicle will be my last hopefully, would like it to last 20+ years like my current one
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2024
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  8. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    Correction- we don't hate EVs. They're fine if they suit you.

    We just hate government forcing us to buy them. Particularly when they're an inferior vehicle for technical reasons.
     
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  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    not what I have seen from many anti-EV folks

    but yes, that would be my view as well, I am glad we have early adopters, I just won't be one
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2024
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  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't know anyone on either side who would not agree that the EV can be useful in the limited local runabout role.
     
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  11. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, it's a slightly flawed statistic. If someone is looking to buy an ICE-powered car, they have hundreds of models to choose from, many of which are pretty similar but someone looking to buy an all-electric car would have many fewer options, with Tesla very much the best known name within that small market. There are also a lot more options for used ICE-powered cars so people looking for all-electric are probably more likely to buy new. So I'd suggest the reality is that, while Tesla has certainly dominated the electric car market, I'd question this statistic is evidence of them dominating the car market in general.

    Anyway, why would you expect national media to make a big thing of this. There are loads of companies who have gained or long held dominant positions in their industry but that doesn't generate news articles. In itself, it isn't especially "new" and also, generic "good news" in general isn't a big seller. It would take more of a hook than just some bland statistic to justify any kind of major coverage.

    And rightly or not, the current public image of Musk at the moment probably doesn't help. Ultimately, the media is about selling advertising space and the largely requires telling people what they want to hear.
     
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  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    oh, agree, in certain cases, heck sure most golf courses use electric vehicles

    for me, it would not be cost-effective, but if it is for some, have at it
     
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  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You have some very reasonable points here. I'm not so sure that having limited model options is an advantage for Tesla, but I get your point on that. And, I didn't intend to claim that EVs dominate the car market - they don't.

    However, the mainstream media (including Fox and all) all too often present EVs as failing. Sales of EVs have been increasing. That can't be ignored.

    The constant growth of Tesla along with others is significant. It's growing even though the US government majorly botched EV charging standards, there aren't enough charge points and there are not enough good model options.

    I tend to agree with analysts who note that ICE manufacturers have grown to depend on large volume sales, and have thus tuned their business for that. They share their profits with numerous companies that create parts for them - stopping delivery when the little Ford emblem wasn't supplied, etc.. They sell through dealerships, which don't want to sell EVs as their is so little maintenance opportunity. Cutting into their volume will, l think, have an outsized impact.

    This miss by the media could be attributed to the struggles of well known ICE manufacturers to produce a viable EV. We see a number of these companies seriously backing off their EV efforts as their products have not been competitive. These failures get presented to the press as low demand. Also, foreign sales of ICE vehicles from our US manufacturers are declining. They aren't so flush that they can continue with billion dollar redirection.

    And, of course we have the headwinds created by oil companies. More than 2/3 of US oil consumption goes to transportation.
     
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  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    China is a strong counter example, and China represents 1/3 of all car sales.

    They have 90 EV manufacturers. Just one of them, BYD, sold more cars in Q4 than did Tesla, and their rate of increase is such that Tesla will be second - maybe even in 2024.

    German and Japanese car models that are EV are often manufactured exclusively in China under co-ownership deals that split profits. The CEO off VW was fired for suggesting this direction. But, now like others, this is their future.

    The point here is that we are at the beginning of a flood of well made, low cost EVs coming out of China, with China more focused on the world market than they have been.


    One can't expect legacy corporations to compete, as they lose money on every EV sold. Ford states that they lose an average of $34K per EV sale. And, foreign made cars don't sell in China - other than some high priced luxury models.

    Germany is reporting large layoffs. Japan is in especially bad position as they are far more dependent on the auto market than other countries. Also, they can't expect national help, as Japan is the most indebted country in world history.


    China is not making golf carts. They want to dominate world auto sales.
     
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  15. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have said this many times, corps\gov will sell America out.... anything we invent, other countries will steal and sell to us cheaper
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2024
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  16. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t drive a Tesla just because there are so many of them. Where I live it feels like 1/4 of the cars in the road are a Tesla. I would like to retrofit a gas car into an ev. A Camaro with an EV engine would be awesome.
     
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  17. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    Do away with the Federal and state welfare subsidies for rich peoples' hobby cars and see how profitable Tesla is. Looking at the latest job creation numbers, most Americans soon won't even be able to afford electric bicycles in 5 years.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2024
  18. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    You left out terminal flatulence.
     
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  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    But since the majority of humanity live in cities……….
     
  20. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    43% of humanity does not live in cities...that a pretty big chunk . EVs can be a nice fit for those with the lifestyle and money that works for owning a EV. And for those who aren't interested in road trips or have the money to fly for trips normally traveled by car... etc.

    I've been researching the charging time and reading blogs about those who make road trips with EV. I would say that right now it's a good fit for those who don't mind being stuck in cities or those who are well off.

    When EV stations are numerous and easily available and when charging is done in the same amount of time as filling a tank of gas then they will be a realistic option for a larger proportion of the world's people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2024
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  21. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the very existence of the EV “market” is due to subsidies.
     
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  22. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

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    It remains a niche role.
     
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  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    We will see
     
  24. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm firstly I did say “majority” and last time I looked 57% was a majority. Plus no citations. The real rwvolution has already occurred - disability vehicles. How many older/disabled people are travelling to the shops, bingo, bowls using electric scooters? And yet the right keeps pointing to large trucks. Even there though there could be massive savings - look at “road trains”
     
  25. Pieces of Malarkey

    Pieces of Malarkey Well-Known Member

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    So you live somewhere where old/disabled people drive electric scooters 4 miles to the mall and "road trains" will be used to put a new roof on your house or fix a downed powerline instead of a truck?

    What alternative universe is that?
     

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