MSNBC medical contributor tells Americans to start wearing masks again after uptick in COVID hospita

There’s plenty of ‘best sellers’ on Amazon that are written by modern day conservatives I’d like to read.

I say “modern day conservatives” because way back in the day of drafting the Constitution and Bill of Rights - our Founding Fathers we’re all for limiting big government and protection of personal rights… considered liberal at that time but now the conservative’s way of thinking. It’s kinda like the color blue used to the Republican’s color and red for Democrats, but has since flip flopped. Strange days indeed.

 

Not true. Post a link which is credible that supports your comment. I mean credible links of those who were looking after people with covid and signing death certificates. I have pointed out to you what a reliable source is. Any sources you have posted are biased and just opinions. I think the sensible people on this thread can actually see that. Just because something is written in a book doesn’t make it true.


Again, have you ever had first hand experience of patients that are intubated in the ICU due to covid pneumonia or have you witnessed how death certificates are filled out? I very much doubt you have any information that demonstrates people died ‘from those health conditions’ when they were intubated in the ICU with respiratory distress or ARDs from infection with SARS-Cov-2 which is not caused by diabetes, cancer, and all the other conditions listed by the CDC of what makes people vulnerable. I don’t know why you keep posting this false information. It’s not true.

If you can’t prove with credible link(s) that what you are saying is true, stop posting what is clearly misinformation. You really haven’t been able to back up any of your claims with credible resources.

It is clear that what you are stating is absolutely wrong.

Even prior to the pandemic doctors, coroners, medical examiners knew how to fill out a death certificate properly — listing the actual cause of death and any thing that contributed to death. Of course those who lack such knowledge and haven’t actually worked with patients and death certificates seem to be using social media and uneducated people to form their opinions.

Health conditions/health behaviours that make a person more vulnerable to developing severe covid are as follows:

Asthma, Cancer, Cerebrovascular disease, people receiving dialysis, chronic lung diseases, chronic liver disease, Cystic Fibrosis, Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes, Down Syndrome, heart conditions, HIV, mood disorders including depression, Schizophrenia, Obesity, physical inactivity, pregnancy, recent pregnancy, smoking, solid organ or blood stem cell transplantation, tuberculosis, use of steroids or other immunosuppressive medication.

Most of the above are well-controlled chronic health issues and the people coming into hospital who were seriously ill were not dying from asthma, cancer, diabetes, schizophrenia, depression, pregnancy and so forth. What is your proof that they did? They were infected with a virus, they were more vulnerable due to underlying health conditions, and died from respiratory arrest due to the virus causing severe pneumonia.

Go and find a source that states these underlying health conditions cause death from pneumonia. You can’t because it’s absurd. I can’t even fathom how you and others could believe something so ludicrous because it is outright fallacious and it demonstrates a definite lack of medical knowledge and if you actually went to a medical site, you might learn something.

An overweight sedentary person contracts covid and can’t clear their lungs and ends up with a serious lung infection and then dies from respiratory arrest. Are you seriously suggesting that person died because they were overweight and sedentary?

A patient is in a car accident and has catastrophic injuries — like crushed chest, which caused damage to the heart, lungs, massive blood loss If the patient dies the cause of death is the car accident. If they were obese, diabetic, pregnant, these things might have put them at increased risk of death but they weren’t the cause of death. In line, with your reasoning, this person died of their underlying health conditions and not the car accident.

Many people live with chronic illnesses and don’t die from these chronic illnesses, they make the person more vulnerable to developing severe covid. When a patient is brought to the hospital with difficulty breathing from pneumonia caused by covid-19, they might need to be intubated if their lungs fill up with fluid. They can’t breath on their own and if they die they died from covid causing catastrophic damage to the lungs, followed by cardiac arrest, kidney failure and so on. To suggest that this person who was vulnerable died of their well controlled diabetes, inactivity, and obesity is false.

It was heart breaking to talk to family members who said they were fine of until they contracted covid-19 and died in the ICU intubated. Families would say these people went to work, controlled their chronic illnesses and so forth. They would have lived if they had not gotten ill with covid-19.

So either post some reliable information that support your beliefs or just stop posting bollocks that you find on the internet.

As per your comment wanting to know what books I have read related to the pandemic, I could name a few like how the vaccine was developed at Oxford Uni written by those that were developing it. That was fascinating. I’ve read books about pandemics. I’ve read books on the chain of events leading up to the pandemic. Prior to the pandemic have read other textbooks written by immunologists, virologists, epidemiology == people that are experts. I don’t read opinions from third parties who have no education related to the sciences. I have also taken chemistry courses, biochemistry courses, courses about how the immune system works, anatomy, physiology, neurobiology and so forth. I have clinical experience. It takes hundreds of hours to learn about specific sciences and become an expert and then even more practicing within clinical settings. List Dowd’s and Berenson’s medical qualifications and what clinical settings they have worked in.


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/vsrg/vsrg03-508.pdf

 

I just posted a creditable source - #518. Of course you won't read it because it goes against your narrative.

Name some of these books which detail the success of the lockdowns.

 

19th Century liberals were for limiting government, for free speech, and human rights. The liberals we have today are actually progressives who extoll post modernism thought in which there is no actual truth. It's ridiculous.

 

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Alex Berenson is not a credible source. Answer the question related to people with pneumonia from Covid and your claim that people died of other things. That is not true and surely you should be able to find information online that supports your erroneous statements. You really can’t argue with worldwide medical knowledge related to Covid deaths.

People can die from untreated diabetes because it can lead to high blood sugar and diabetic ketoacidosis, a serious condition that can be deadly. A person does not develop ARDS or respiratory distress from untreated diabetes. They develop it from infection with viruses. Your narrative is completely wrong unless Alex Berenson can provide evidence. He has not. You have not.

When one reads AB he writes with a tone of righteous indignation. His books are not unbiased. He sure has an axe to grind with anybody who disagrees with him. He uses cherry picked evidence. In his book about masks, he avoids pro mask evidence, dismisses it, or glosses over it. The righteous indignation along with cherry picking his evidence demonstrates he isn’t a good source. And you shouldn’t cling to information that comes from biased people.
Fact check it from other sources.

Every bit of medical science world wide will state that the underlying heath issues do not cause the deaths of those being ventilated for a pneumonia caused by the covid, No matter how you try to bend reality, people infected with Covid had underlying health conditions that made them more vulnerable to severe symptoms. Either provide proof or stop filling this thread with misinformation.

A reliable source, not an essay written by an angry man who possesses no relevant education.

 

Berenson is an investigative journalist. His books are fully referenced and footnoted. All you do is resort to personal attacks and insults instead of actually reading and addressing the points he makes in his books.

Fact check his sources - he has 59 pages of references in his book Pandemia.

Still no book recommendations?

 

I asked for credible sources not creditable.

Credible is an adjective that describes something or someone that is believable, trustworthy, and reliable. When something is credible, it is considered to be truthful and accurate based on evidence or facts. In other words, credibility is the quality of being worthy of belief or confidence.

Creditable is also an adjective, but it has a slightly different meaning than credible. When something is creditable, it is worthy of praise or recognition. It is often used to describe an achievement or performance that is deserving of respect or admiration.

 

I’m still waiting for you to support your statement about people dying. Surely, you must be able to produce evidence that shows millions of people died from underlying health issues rather than covid. Is asking someone who is posting erroneous information to provide proof, a personal attack? If you don’t provide proof, everyone on this thread will know it’s misinformation.

I am not insulting you by saying you are bending reality. You are.

 

I have presented evidence.

 

I have presented evidence.

And still no books?

 

Berenson uses nothing but credible sources when he reports information contained in his books. All statements made are footnoted and the references listed in the multiple pages at the end of each book.

Of course there are many with narratives who refuse to admit that there is evidence which questions and refutes those narratives. Instead they attempt to silence that evidence by calling it misinformation and cancelling the sources who publish this information. That is what we see here. It is the 21st century equivalent of the witch hunts which took place decades ago in Salem Massachusetts.

 

Exactly. I spent most of a page getting this "AFM" person to answer simple statements. He just kept running away from them and finally dumped this stupid book up. I don't think he realizes the difference between credible sources and source data! I showed how Berenson screwed up on his unqualified "interpretation" of data and apparently he was correct! Notwithstanding that VAERS does NOT offer any correlation or causation and is simply a data gathering tool!

 

Apparently answers to all of this is "up thread"! MEH!

@AFM Bolded question needs a simple yes or no!

I asked you to provide "real world" data and show why my source has been "discredited" - are you afraid to answer this?

 

You have presented 0 evidence related to your comment that people only died of underlying health issues during the pandemic. There is no credible evidence that supports that fallacy.

Again you are talking about yourself because there is no narrative that supports the misinformation you have been fed. Oh please, why don’t you accept that when people get called out time and time again for posting misinformation, it’s not a witch hunt, it’s people correcting the stupendous lies. Let’s not get all emotional and upset. You are wrong about the deaths and if I had Doctors who cared for the dying people contact you and described how and why people died, that wouldn’t work. You would still cling on to the words of a journalist who never went near an ICU. Everyone seems to understand that but you. These misinformation peddlers are becoming quite cultish. Even when presented with truth, you deny it because your guru said so. Kind of reminds of the word — sheeple.

 

Perhaps AFM can’t admit they are wrong. They believe it because they read it in a book. Just because something is in a book doesn’t mean it is correct. I’m still waiting for the proof related to Covid deaths. I seriously question how anybody can say Covid deaths were all from underlying health issues. It’s ridiculous.

 

I have never made the claim that only people with CDC preconditions died from Covid.

I have back up everything I have said. I have posted no misinformation.

 

All of what I have referenced in the books that I have read is backed up by reliable sources.

 

I and many others have answered these questions.

 

And this data gathering tool indicates a problem with the Covid vaccines.

 

You have posted nothing BUT.

Supply the "real world" data! HERE!

Says this:

With THIS at the top of this very page!

You've tied yourself up in knots with this batshit. Either the pre-existing conditions are the cause of hospitalization or the virus is. If the former what the hell happened worldwide to fill every hospital ward?

And there we have it yet again. A conspiracy theorist runs away from even a one word answer!

"You seem to be making the utterly absurd suggestion that the huge fatalities were not caused by the virus. But suddenly all these preconditions caused hospitalization and fatality!? "

Now answer that properly! Are you claiming that a massive worldwide surge of existing preconditions suddenly occurred and that the covid-19 virus was not the cause? YES OR NO!

You are completely boxed in. Your claims do not support the data and answering that question will show this. That is why you cannot answer it.

 

NO IT DOES NOT! Show where you have applied correlation/causation to any of that data. Your book author has not the slightest clue what they are doing. You seem to think that every academic who has studied the data must be corrupt or in on some idiotic global-scam!

VAERS and FAERS data shown does not prove COVID-19 vaccine adverse events and deaths | Reuters
"Misleading. The data shown for adverse events and deaths are from FAERS and VAERS data, which does not provide information on verified, causal cases. The information can be submitted by anyone and does not show causation."

 

What is absurd is that these people seem to think some plan exists to wipe out the "sheep" who got the vaccine, leaving all the "smart" people who chose not to have it! The very ones that the "evil overlords" want rid of. Yet here we are more than 2 years on and absolutely nobody is dying from this vaccine.

 

Fail. You did say it. You have not backed up anything. The above is misinformation.

 

He thinks backing his statements up involves finding someone else who agrees with his misinformation! Hence that absurd book.

 

I have done all this upthread. And I have provided sources.