Murphy : Senate Gun Talks Focus on Mental Health, School Safety

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by XXJefferson#51, Jun 5, 2022.

  1. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    …Democratic U.S. Senator Chris Murphy, who is leading the talks with Republican counterpart John Cornyn, said options on the table included investments in mental health and school safety.

    "Do some significant mental health investment, some school safety money and some modest but impactful changes in gun laws. That's the kind of package we're putting together right now. That's the kind of package I think can pass the Senate," Murphy said in an interview on CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday.

    Democrats control razor-thin majorities in Congress but Senate rules mean they need at least 10 Republicans to pass major legislation. That is a tall order with less than six months before November midterm elections when Republicans aim to retake the majority.

    U.S. Senator Pat Toomey, a Republican member of the negotiating group, said some expansion of background checks is on the table, along with possible "red flag" laws that allow states to maintain adequate due process.

    "I think there is a place to land that is consistent with the Second Amendment," Toomey said, speaking on CBS’s “Face the Nation” program. "It hasn’t been finally resolved but something in the space of expanding background checks I think is very – well, certainly is on the table and I hope will be part of a final package."…

    [​IMG]
    ..,The Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects the right to keep and bear arms, and Republicans defend a broad reading of that right, opposing most new limits on gun ownership.

    While the White House and Congress struggle to agree on any response to the wave of shootings, the U.S. Supreme Court this month is expected to rule on a New York case that could bring a sweeping expansion of gun rights…







    read more: https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/texas-school-shooting-legislation/2022/06/05/id/1072998/








    I
    could live with and support what seems to be developing here. This seems like a rational approach to the problems we’ve been having. The issues of strengthening schools and addressing mental health issues are important. Red flag laws consistent with due process and making background checks faster and more efficient/accurate seems reasonable.
     
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  2. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    Based on this article and barring any bad new developments I could support this deal.
     
  3. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They need to move the age up from 18 to 21 to be able to purchase or posses such weapons unless they have passed a training course or have military service as well.
     
  4. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    California had such a law doing exactly that and a federal court struck it down as against the 2A. Why would a federal law like that have any more standing? For the record I would not oppose that if the mental health and strengthening of schools were sufficient.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
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  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I would ask the same question that was asked of Senator Nadler who said we should do so because their brains are not developed enough.

    Should we raise the draft age to 21?

    ..“We recognize different ages with different purposes. We recognize 18 for the draft. We recognize 16 for driving and in some states, we recognize 21 for drinking. So we recognize different ages for different purposes. That’s all I wanted to say,” Nadler stated at a House hearing on gun violence.

    “Could I have a second to engage that,” Massie asked and then was allowed to proceed with questioning Nadler.

    “Would the chairman join me in co-sponsoring a bill to raise the draft age to 21?” Massie asked.

    “No,” Nadler responded.

    “But the chairman feels their brains aren’t fully formed at 18, 19, and 20?” Massie pressed.

    “The research does indicate that in certain respects, but the selective service needs… I mean, if the country needs, it needs people,” Nadler weakly replied.

    “It needs people whose brains aren’t fully formed?” Massie grilled Nadler.

    “In some respects, yes,” the chairman nonsensically responded.
    https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/0...d-but-drafting-is-ok-because-numbers-1246016/
    Watch here it is even more notible when you actually hear the exchange
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1532459800004546560

    I would add the voting age?
    How about age to consent to an abortion?
     
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  6. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They ruled that a hunting license could be used as a metric to limit sales to individuals under 21 years old
    Hunting licenses can require training, which loop around to my original point
     
  7. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you want to add an age limit on the ability to vote due to lack of cognitive ability, then there must also be an upper limit. I would absolutely be fine with this

    On the abortion issue, I think it is a little absurd to say that an individual is unable to consent to having an abortion but instead able to have a child - I will always default to bodily autonomy on issues like this

    The draft needs to be completely repealed

    I am completely fine with doing what the courts have already ruled is constitutional, licencing
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    So Biden would no longer be able to vote? What age are you suggesting?

    Why if their brains aren't fully developed? Giving birth and then raising the child are two different matters. There is a thing called adoption and teenagers have parents too.?

    Why? And of course a strawman because it never will so in the meantime should the age be raised to 21?

    Not for mere ownership.
     
  9. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    I would support returning to 21 for adult in all matters repealing the age 18 amendment. I didn’t feel ready to be one at 18 in the same decade they did that change
     
  10. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    But the 18-20 year old could still buy it and use it for home defense and target practice at a range.
     
  11. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    According to various research (I am using Aartsen, et al., 2002) serious cognitive decline begins to occur over age 70. Let’s add 10% to account for outliers and start there. 77

    No, Biden would not be able to vote or be able to serve in public office

    If someone is unable to have an opinion about their own body, they definitely do not have the ability to raise a child in a manner that is necessary for the proper development of said child

    you asked about the draft, how is my opinion on the draft a strawman? Maybe you don’t understand what that word means

    The courts disagree with you, age limits and/or licensing have been found to be constitutional
    I know our courts no longer operate on precedent though so that may be subject to change.
     
  12. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have no issues with someone using a weapon for home defense, if someone wants to keep a bazooka in their home that’s fine — the issue is what happens when it leaves the home.
     
  13. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    it would leave the home to go to the gun range to target practice. One would need to go to the range to gain experience in use of the weapon.
     
  14. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The issue is once a weapon is in someone’s possession it is very difficult to control what they do with it
     
  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And it the person still has their cognitive ability? Are you suggesting we have some type of literacy test again?

    So you admit he is not mental capable of the job anymore?

    They are not the ONLY person who could parent the child and since they would be old enough in a few years, in which their parents are certainly there, or adoption of course.

    Because it will never be legislated out of existence so it is a strawman to the argument here.

    I believe they have been striking attempts to require a government license to own a firearm and in fact is on verge of striking down the one New York is trying to implement.
     
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  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you can vote at 18 you should be able to do anything at 18. And to think some Dems want to lower it to 16.
     
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  17. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    As long as it is used lawfully there is no need to control what they do with it
     
  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Just came across this, so it this guy was an American citizen you would bar him from voting

    At 83, Japanese becomes oldest to sail solo across Pacific

    upload_2022-6-5_15-5-13.png

    TOKYO >> An 83-year-old Japanese adventurer returned home Saturday after successfully completing his solo, nonstop voyage across the Pacific, becoming the oldest person to reach the milestone.

    Kenichi Horie arrived in the Kii Strait off Japan’s western coast, completing his trans-Pacific voyage in 69 days after leaving a yacht harbor in San Francisco in March.

    It was the latest achievement for the octogenarian adventurer, who in 1962 became the first person in the world to successfully complete a solo nonstop voyage across the Pacific from Japan to San Francisco.

    Sixty years later, he traveled the opposite route.
    https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022...e-becomes-oldest-to-sail-solo-across-pacific/
    Congrats Mr. Horie great sail!


     
  19. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    We can vote at that age here in the USA but you must vote Democrat and some nice young people will pick up your ballots and fill them out for you and turn them in. You're allowed to vote this way for up to 10 years after death.
     
  20. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You were the one that brought up a minimum voting age, if we have a minimum voting age due to lack of cognitive ability then it must be uniform. Cognitive ability has been proven to decline after a certain age

    When have I ever said he was mentally capable?

    And again, if someone is deemed to not be able to have an opinion on their own bodily autonomy due to cognitive ability, they should not be allowed to have a child - much less forced to do so

    That isn’t what a strawman is
    A strawman is an “intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.”
    You brought up the draft, which makes it relevant to the argument that you are attempting to present.

    If background checks are constitutional, then so is licensing
    Is the argument here that we should have no verification or process in order to purchase a firearm?
     
  21. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And what happens when they take it to a protest or they take it to a school?
    And then they kill 19 children?
    Was control needed then?
     
  22. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    That was the case when I bought my first gun.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
  23. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And it’s luckily one of the reasons why we have so many illegal weapons on the black market
     
  24. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    No, I hardly think that is the case. The illegal weapons to concern you are those that are being used illegally. Gangs have changed too. Back then the scariest gang weapon was a switchblade knife. It isn't the availability of weapons that have changed it is the attitude of people and the desire to use them. Society is different.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2022
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  25. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    If they do the school thing there would have been warning signs along the way, thus the need for more mental health interventions and hardening of schools since the court said we can’t limit 18-20 year old adults.
     

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