Native American reservations must be abolished or racism will persist...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Aquarius, Sep 30, 2023.

  1. Aquarius

    Aquarius Well-Known Member

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    Instead of being treated like the preferred minorities of white people they should work and pay taxes like everyone else.

    Most natives dont want special treatment and want to be assimilated into the American melting pot.
     
  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Native Americans aren't required to live in reservations. They choose to. They can integrate normally into society and many have. Why take away from them where they choose to live?
     
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  3. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there is a legal way to abolish them. They are a function of treaties.
     
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  4. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    You do all realize the only reason 'reservations' exist in the first place is because a series of US Government' legally sanctioned the expropriation of all other territory formally occupied by the various tribes and then designated land they didnt want as reservations
    Now your complaining that those exist? They're a historical construct of the US Government policy not a choice or 'privilege' enjoyed by the residents.
     
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  5. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    So people who were invaded and dispossessed shouldn't be allowed to keep ANY of their land, even if they signed a deal with the US Government saying that they could. And this expropriation is somehow in the best interests of the people clinging on to the last bits of land that weren't stolen.

    What a bizarre idea. Even the Usual Suspects haven't turned up to defend this one.
     
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  6. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiosity....do you know of any other conquered land/people that were able to keep parts of their land through out history? Historically speaking such is extremely rare, so rare that you could probably count it on one hand. Even the Roman Empire, while they allowed many to keep their own cultures...with supervision...the land was still taken and considered a part of the Roman Empire.

    And before you claim I'm defending the OP's Idea, I'm not. I'm just pointing out that historically speaking, allowing "reservations" is almost unheard of. I only mention it because the tone of your post suggests an indignant self righteousness as if the idea is foreign. Frankly I've heard the OP's suggestion before. Normally I ignore such suggestions.
     
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  7. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    If historical precedent and examples are being invoked then be careful. Incomers of European extraction arrived and practiced genocide.
    There is no reason why that should be forgotten or forgiven.
    Good job America is such a violent place as it provides a platform for the regime to defend themselves against those who may want revenge?
     
  8. bigfella

    bigfella Well-Known Member

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    There are examples, but I'd rather you just made whatever point you are planning to make without me running off to do research you could do for yourself. If you want a gold star for not stealing every square inch of land from Indigenous Americans you'll need to look elsewhere.
     
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  9. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Living on reservation or living off it is a choice. Do indigenous people have the same privileges on and off it in the US?
     
  10. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    Look at the history of voting for all peoples in North America and then come back and talk about choice.
     
  11. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    The 'point' is that reservations are a historical anomaly. One the indigenous Americans are not responsible for creating in the first place. The rest of America 'voted' to create them and then imposed their existence on the tribes. And along with reservation system came the legal framework they operate under including whatever 'privileges' you might think indigenous Americans receive from living on them. Complaining about the existence of the reservation system now is like complaining about the cost of the Alaskan purchase or outcome of the civil war i.e. it's far to late!

    And as for these 'privileges'? Living conditions on many of them are way below what you or any other other American would regard as acceptable. American Indians living in the reservation system have a far lower standard of living and far higher levels of than the national average. Like to share those 'privileges'?
     
  12. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    This did not answer the question asked in the text it quoted. Why do people do that?

    It is one thing for indigenous people to have special rights others don't have when on reservation. It is white another thing if they have such rights off reservation in the cities of the dominant society. Do they have the latter in the US? Pretty straightforward question.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2023
  13. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Double post. Please delete.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2023
  14. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    And for the record, I oppose doing away with reservations, so long as there are people still living there who grew up there. If those people want, I would also be fine with full independence nation for them on that land.
     
  15. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    'People' do that because the person asking the question hasn't been clear. In this case they can't answer because you haven't specified what alleged 'rights' your talking about? Which State if any you think those 'rights' apply in? (Because presumably the States all have at least a limited ability to grant their indigenous citizens certain exclusive 'rights' not available to other citizens.) And of course the same thing at the national level. So we've sort of got a 'how long is a piece of string?' scenario going on.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2023
  16. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Because I don't know what they are there. Here in Canada they have special fishing rights for example. There are also special tax exemptions for them here on reservation but I don't know if that applies to their property or activity off reservation.

    I mean any and all rights they have specifically because they are indigenous. And I mean in whatever state or reservation they have them in.

    It is a broad question inviting a wide variety of information if anybody here should know it. If you don't know any such information, that's ok.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2023
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    The Native American nations that you call reservation exist by Treaty with the Federal government of the United States of America. My wife is a card carrying Cherokee. Technically members of the various tribes are dual citizens of the United states and can live anywhere they damn well please.
     
  18. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    When living off reservation land do they have to live according to the same rules as everyone else? If your wife buys land off reservation, does she pay taxes as everyone does? If she works off reservation, same?
     
  19. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Yep. And yep.
     
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  20. dharbert

    dharbert Well-Known Member

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    Should have fought harder. Better luck next time....
     
  21. Chrizton

    Chrizton Well-Known Member

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    I am sure they appreciate you being their spokesman.
     
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  22. Aquarius

    Aquarius Well-Known Member

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    They appreciate a straight shooting conservative that wants unity and love for all.
     
  23. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The problem is this concept of ancestral land. And by 'problem', I don't mean the concept is necessarily a bad thing, but it is a barrier in this context. Natives hesitate to leave the res in part because they feel an obligation to stay true to their native land. But in order to keep their native land in Native hands, they can never actually own it. Their tribe (or their nation) owns it, otherwise it would eventually be sold off to 'other' people and there wouldn't be any 'native land' left. Its more difficult to prosper on land that you do not actually own, for reasons that are at least partially psychological, but nonetheless real. So the grasping onto of their ancestral land is somewhat of a hindrance to their prosperity. It also doesn't help that we took all the good land and left them with the shittier land, generally. But thats only part of the equation.

    Those natives that want to assimilate, can, and do. They're not forcefully prevented from moving away, working and/or buying their own land. They may be culturally prevented from doing so by their families and peoples, but that is still a choice. And frankly, its a choice I think they should have. Culture can be rather important, and its not for an outsider to judge whether they're better off 'assimilating' or whether they should stay true to their ancestry.

    And yes, that is kindof racist. And yes, its kindof funny that it seems to be an accepted racism. If white people did that, it would THE END OF THE ****ING WORLD (TM)....
     
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  24. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    You may be right.
    Perhaps in your world the solution to everything is violence after which the winner takes all.
    Ironic that a large number of Americans purport to be ‘Christians’ and go on about love thy neighbour as thyself.
     
  25. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so we should steal the rest of their land?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023

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