New EU Treaty - I'm Genuinely Confused

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Leffe, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    1. What exactly does the new treaty cover? All I can find is "binding rules over tax and spending, and sanctions against countries that overspend". But what specifically does this mean? I heard Sarkozi wants an EU corporation tax rate, but he's wanted that for a long time, his target is Ireland.

    2. Personally, I agree with more specific rules for Euro zone countries. What were they thinking in trying to get non-Euro countries to buy in? Sweden and the Czech Rep. also disagree, I can't help but feel this was a little naive of EU leaders, especially if they wanted a quick path forward. The UK, Sweden and Czech have all stated they have no problems with the Euro zone countries having their own treaty - which seems to make sense.

    3. Contradicting myself (point 2), isn't a significant problem the amount of borrowing and lending between banks of different countries and therefore different currencies? In this case, how much impact will a Euro treaty have? Consider also that Euro countries borrow and lend with non-EU nations such as the US.

    I'm starting to agree that a two "tier" (although I hate that term) Europe is a better way forward. Those that agree with a close Federal Europe in one group, with others separate. This should not impact the principle of free trade and movement of people, which everyone agrees with. Issues such as the ECJ would have to be agreed however.
     
  2. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    1. "Exactly" what it covers no one knows because it hasn't actually been written yet. But broadly it will require countries to have balanced budgets and give the European Commission the power to effectively "veto" budgets. And they're going to put up some more cash to help countries that are currently knee deep in the poo.

    2. I imagine they're thinking that the UK, Sweden and Norway have a decent amount of cash so it would be nice if they joined the in crowd.

    3. No not really. The problems are about bad fiscal management of a few Euro zone countries, particularly Italy and Greece. There are of course other problems, EU has over reached itself a bit.

    Don't really know what you're talking about with the two tier system? Vaguely heard it mentioned a couple of times. What France, Spain, Germany, Italy, etc, the bigger economies on a first tier euro and the smaller economies on a second tier? England won't give up its currency and neither will Sweden, Switzerland or Norway, at least not in the near future.
     
  3. edao

    edao New Member

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    I struggle to see how any of the measures mentioned so far are a Fiscal Union as is claimed.

    All I have heard come out of Brussels is a loads of rules and ideas.

    The fundamental hurdle that the EZ has to make is unlocking the use of rich countires wealth to supposrt ailing economies like Spain and Italy, and not as some bailout fund because if Italy or Spain go to the point of bailout the EZ is over.

    What has come out this week seems to me to be a long term frame-work for helping cement the EZ, but the immediate funding crisis of Italy and Spain is not a long term problem but an immediate one. Unless this agreement paves the way for the ECB to get involved in a big way I can't say things are looking very promising.

    The details are supposed to be fleshed out in March. That's over 3 months of market specualtion. You'd have to be pretty optimistic to believe the sharks won't have picked the flesh off the bones of Italy's ruined economy long before then.
     
  4. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    As predicted , the Waffle summit produced nothing that is directly and immediately concerned with steps to avoid the final demise of the euro and the certain reshaping of the E . Zone .
    Merkel and Sarkozy will soon disappear from the scene as the present EZ falls to pieces .
    And thinking narrowly , Germany will reel and stagger when the French banks take the mega smack , shortly followed by Spanish mayhem . It will be like replaying the Battle of Britain victory .
    Should we build a new squadron of Spitfires to keep the losers at bay when they come foraging for tit bits ?
     
  5. Paris

    Paris Well-Known Member

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    What a new treaty will mean to many UKers living a good life on the continent:

    1) Pack your bags.
    2) Apply for a new job in the UK.
    3) Be prepared to defend your pensions against government's raids.

    Cheers
     
  6. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    A new treaty just might mean a referendum on EU membership as our political establishment is running out of excuses. Pro-EU governments will try to raid our pensions with or without a new treaty.

    When you've sorted out the eurozone crisis, you can offer advice to UKers.
     
  7. tamora

    tamora New Member

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    There isn't a new EU treaty as yet. It hasn't even been drafted yet, never mind signed. Cameron has achieved absolutely nothing of note, yet he's still being feted as the great eurosceptic. FCOL!
     

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