Nobody says, "abortion should be illegal because since women took the risk to get pregnant, they are idiots who deserve to suffer the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy". Pro-lifers are against abortion because abortion kills a fetus. Giving a football player medical treatment doesn't harm an innocent child's life.
I never used that lame argument. Neither did Churchmouse. We (at least some pro-lifers) are against abortion for totally different reasons. Why are you putting words into our mouths?
and as shown before this is irrelevant in self defence laws, intent or innocence are not necessary in self defence laws, if they are how do you explain that a pregnancy resulting from rape is a literal injury in law .. the pregnancy is after the fact (ie the rape) explain how it can be seen as part of the rape?
Here we are several posts later and you still haven't answered this question: Yes, it is irrelevant, and here's why. Hatred and generalization of "lefters" (your word) is the result of hate radio brainwashing, not reason. When Republicans succeed in making sex education and birth control more difficult to access, and abortion illegal, pretty much the only option for pregnant women will be forced birth. That is reproductive slavery. But life is not the same thing as a human being, is it? But there is no scientific consensus, so I guess it isn't based on science then. Whether something is "living" isn't the issue. We kill living things all the time. That's funny from someone who believes in a "magic human moment," and that a fetus has a "right" to have its life sustained at the expense of another. Then prove a fertilized egg is a human being.
Do you have any statistical proof that sex education works? What do you think has a higher correlation teen pregnancy and basic literacy or teen pregnancy and sex Ed spending? Ever meet someone who had a kid and had no clue why? Besides that point had nothing to do with the questions presented to you. Who decided? She assumed a risk, just as a man assumes a risk he will have to pay child support. Actions have consequences. Why doesn't the left ever feel that way about any issue? Yes there is provable science that an aborted fetus was human and alive before it was killed. That is why they had to kill it in the first place. Your "being" stuff is just some religious crap used to rationalize killing humans. Yes. The left kills living things all the time and humans whenever they can get away with it. That is my point. Don't you think killing humans is wrong unless you absolutely have to? When did I say the human fetus has a right to life at the expense of another life? It is you who believe in a magic time they get that right and you have yet to define it. Don't dodge and project. Fertilized egg that duplicates is living - yes or no? DNA confirms it is human- yes or no? Being is religious/philosophical word that doesn't mean (*)(*)(*)(*), but is used to distinguish people over the years in order to justify killing for profit - yes or no? If not then what does it mean to you and why do you think it matters?
Suggest you look back over some of the other threads, I've posted, more than once, the figures that show states with restrictive sex education have a higher teenage pregnancy rate than those that have comprehensive sex education. Take it one step further and compare the USA teenage birth, abortion rate with other countries which have far more liberal views on sex and its education as a whole and the USA is still rated higher than them. Why is it that a full 1/3 of American teenage girls who got pregnant did not realize it could happen the first time they had sex. There is more than enough evidence to show that abstinence only sex education does not work. and as repeated often enough yet ignored - no person is expected to suffer injury through taking a risk. A man pays child support after the pregnancy ends, when there is a "person" recognized in law, tell me what does he pay while the pregnancy is ongoing? Sure actions have consequences, yet we don't expect people to suffer injury because of those consequences. The "Left" as you call it do .. however the "Left" also believe that people should not be left to suffer those consequences when the ability to help them is available .. the Right just want people to suffer regardless. and again who is saying that it is not human and alive, what difference does that make .. perhaps you should look up the difference between human (adj) and human (noun). Lol, really funny about the religious stuff considering the whole pro-life movement has it's roots in religious dogma. Lets see know which of the Right and Left have contributed to the most deaths in history .. care to wager a bet on the outcome. Define "absolutely have to" Just as you do. and this is relevant why? evidence to support that being is religious/philosophical word.
And you have arrived at the key for us pro-lifers in ending this abhorrent practice. Pro-lifers have got to stop bashing the individual pregnant women for wrongdoing, when we have a society that tells them what they are doing is not wrong. Calling them murderers is not going to work. The reason is simple, ordinary people have a good idea of what a murderer is, i.e. Dahmer, Bundy, etc. Ordinary people also know women who have an abortion, and they don't share any of the character qualities we would associate with a murderer. There is a clear difference, so we need to stop calling them both murderers. Fugazi is right in the legality of abortion. We aren't going to stop this through laws. We must stop it through education. We must educate on the responsibilities one has in regard to sex, and procreation. And we must educate as to what widespread abortion is capable of in regard to genetics.
Okay - you had me up until the bit about abortion and genetics Yes STOP BLAMING THE WOMEN Particularly stop blaming them while giving men a free ride I will change my mind about the motivation of many pro-lifers when I see a campaign that shows a male boasting about having unprotected sex with multiple partners and then showing the women crying outside of STD clinics and abortion clinics But until then many, particularly male, participants in pro-life give the impression that they want the free unprotected sex but they also want to boast about how many children they have fathered without taking responsibility for those same children
I agree with you up to the highlighted part, the education must be comprehensive sex education not restrictive abstinence only education, which we know does not work, it must also include (and most Republicans are going to choke on their wallets over this one) free contraception. So yes educate on responsibility but don't wield it as a weapon, educate on sex, but don't make it seem like a ride in the park .. but if that fails for some, which is will, we should always ensure that there is a safety net and that net, whether pro-lifers like it or not is contraception and abortion. Instead of gazing into the past with rose tinted glasses we should be embracing the future and finding ways to stop unintended pregnancies from happening in the first place instead of making sex "dirty" with pregnancy being the punishment for having sex outside of procreation.
Why do you think everything I post applies only to you? Was this comment a response to a post you made? Is your name mentioned anywhere in the comment? Is your ego so high that you think every single post is aimed at you?
I have very much participated in the no-consequences sex culture. I always used protection, and in fact, I have never had sex one time in my life without protection. I've had about 70-80 partners. I am currently reflecting on my choices. And I believe that the availability of contraception, plan-B, abortion is what led me to participate in my sexual escapades without fear of consequences. That is why I do not believe that contraception or abortion is the solution.
Let's be clear. Are you saying "you are currently reflecting" on your choices to mean that you now believe those choices were unwise and now you regret those choices? Are you saying further that the availability of contraception, plan-B, and abortion since that availability enabled your unwise choices should not be readily available to others who would make the same mistakes?
It is very selfish to think that just because an individual changes their opinion on something that all others should as well. Have you never heard of free will.
