Nissan chooses Japan over UK to build new X-Trail car

I reckon wind power has been bigged up out of sight, and there are sweeteners/backhanders (call them what you will) galore from the manufacturers and the implementation outfits.

 

FFS I'm talking about all the ones that have gone before?? Like I said the RiaRaeb - just take the hint ffs?

 

In case you did not notice some of us are having a debate, why do you not take the hint and stop acting like a petulant 2 year old.

 

You've got that quite wrong I'm afraid. It's true that the government has paid incentives to get installed renewable generating capacity but the idea that there's generated electricity for which there is no demand is nonsense.

That's one of the benefits of the "dash to gas" is that the UK electricity generation is far more flexible than it once was. The time it took to work up a coal-fired genset meant that a large part of the UK installed generating capacity was "baseload" which meant that it ran 24/7 and any extra capacity was provided by expensive oil-fired plant and/or coal-fired plant on hot or warn standby.

These days, it's really just the nuclear plants and large biomass plants like Drax that provide baseload. Gas fired plants can quickly be brought on stream to plug any gaps in supply. We also

Also, because so much of the UK wind-powered renewables are offshore and because there's significant geographic distribution, wind power is much more consistent than you'd assume.

 

Well have it without me then! ffs!!

 

Actually, according to the live information it's around 7%

http://energynumbers.info/gbgrid

edited to add....

Derp, it's 16%, it's 7GW

 

So as your roving reporter looking at a wind farm!, can I assume that the ones turned away from the wind at the moment are not required?

 

There are currently parts of the UK where the wind speed is low.

There are also parts of the UK where the wind speed is perfectly adequate for electricity generation.

Right now, around 16% of the UK's electricity needs are being provided by wind, about 1/3 of what is being provided by gas, but a smidge more than is being provided by nuclear.

 

Are you saying that unlike traditional windmills they don't have a wind-direction blade which makes them automatically turn into it? No wonder they're virtually useless!

 

No the whole windmill turns to face into wind, the blades are also adjustable for pitch.

 

I've just looked at images and don't see a blade, so how are they turned please?

 

no it isn't... you have to generate it in order to have the capacity there in order for the grid to accept it - the grid will set its requirements and takes power as it needs it for example at peak demand time it requires more capacity. Windmills keep turning even though they don't export power to the grid

 

I've just found out a a physics forum.

 

That's not the way the market works at all. Demand is set by the consumers, not the grid, the grid has to meet demand. Originally the idea was that the market would be entirely "open" with generators bidding on a half-hourly basis to meet supply with the price set by the highest marginal bid to be required. Baseload was bid at zero cost to ensure that it would always be used. Over time the market has been structured around longer-term arrangements for the majority with the bid/offer process being used for marginal demand.

So far wind generation has never even got close to demand - baseload and so any "excess" wind-generated electricity can easily be accommodated by reducing output from gas plants, and by reducing power taken from the Irish, French and Dutch links.

 

indeed but but who sets the price per GW/hour for the export to the grid - are there perhaps contracts which determine the cost in advance - you don't undertake to build a power station on the off chance that someone will ask you to export power to them ...sometimes?

 

It's a mixture of long and short term bilateral arrangements and a marketplace in which electricity is traded by the half-hour.

In essence, generators really do build capacity on spec and at their own risk the exceptions being the incentives received by those installing renewable capacity and the funding arrangements for nuclear power (where the decommissioning costs have to be taken into account unlike any other type of plant). Indeed, one of the big issues being faced by the UK is a lack of spare generating capacity as coal-fired stations are being retired.

Generators aren't mugs though and have worked out that if they don't bother to build new capacity, there's a fair chance that the government will underwrite that investment for them - it's one of the failures of the system. At the moment, imported electricity from Europe is helping to overcome this undercapacity issue but in the event of an "untidy" Brexit, that route may no longer be as easily available.

Here's a very high level overview:

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/electricity/wholesale-market/gb-electricity-wholesale-market

I have to say that it's a lot more complicated than when I was directly involved in the early 1990's just after the privatisation of the electricity industry. Back then there were fewer players in the market (fewer generators and fewer customers), far more spare capacity and a much greater proportion of the market relied on spot trading of electricity.

 

that's interesting... how does that work with the ROC's that the English, Irish or Scottish government issue? For example how is the income split between the wholesale prices and the ROC?

 

indeed Crystal rig and Fallago Rig for example...nice money if you can get the ROC right I seem to recall...??

Edit...

Sorry I should put some context to that...

 

EdF I understand are one of the largest recipients of constraint payments so if that is the case...and we in Kent import electricity from France...EdF...then one assumes that there is a little game being played...??
If they are being paid not to produce and are planning to expand their fleet of windmills here then it begs the question of why are we importing leccy from the frogs in the first place AND paying them wholesale plus ROC AS WELL AS paying them not to produce from their windymillers here in the UK...have I got that right? What am I missing??

 

@The Don sorry mate I've had a liquid lunch so the brain is all over the place at the moment...multiple posts and all that....

 

Err guys? What are you on about? This is an international forum. Americans are watching. Where will we get our supercilious superiority from if we have to live you lot down?

Maybe Nissan has realised the error of their ways in building a diesel powered Chelsea tractor in Sunderland?

Maybe they will be back with a whole new electric vehicle strategy to keep the good makems of Sunderland (61% for Brexit) in jobs?

Or maybe they will quietly slink away to invest in EU countries as the supply chains required to keep Nissan going become unsustainable with a hard Brexit Britain?

And Sunderland is yet to appreciate a deeper sense of shame and stupidity than was even felt by the morons from Hartlepool who hanged a monkey as a French spy?

61%... a number which Sunderland people will never be permitted to forget. If there is any justice it will be their unemployment statistic.

 

I couldn't see the monthly average restraint payment model in there...today its £68/MWh so somewhere someone is receiving roughly an extra £68 (come down from £72 last month...phew!!) on top of their contract price for doing bugger all!!
I tell you mate I'm in the wrong friggin job as usual....I'm buying a windmill...!!

 

good morning...

 

Soooooo jealous.

Dry January has morphed seamlessly into arid February - damn marathon training

 

really! good for you mate.... I was at The Lamb in leadenhall market doing a different kind of training.....