NYC Mayor to synagogues: Close for coronavirus or be shut down permanently

Discussion in 'Coronavirus Pandemic Discussions' started by US Conservative, Mar 29, 2020.

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  1. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This seems anti-religious and a violation of the 1st amendment.

    Can Di Blasio really claim his policies are just "guidelines" if they result in the permanent closing of religious institutions?

    Also, why hasn't he said anything about Islamic mosques?
     
  2. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    The Mayor has every right to do it, in the name of the Public Health.

    The RW Mock Outrage crowd really isn't going to win on this issue.

    Especially, with Trump's long history of support from Anti-Semites.

    So, any sort of Anti Mayor di Blasio angle (from the RW) is going to call on deaf ears.
     
  3. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    He can't close them down permanently. He is just showing how democrats are anti-Semites.
     
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  4. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    I'm actually anti-NY government in general. You guys wanted worse than Trump. You got it. Their incompetence has been remarkable. I wish they took the swift action they're taking here with the Church,a MONTH earlier. Then we wouldn't have to close down churches.
     
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  5. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    It's NOT permanent, its for the duration. Churches all over America are closed and live-streaming services. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints immediately closed their churches worldwide as soon as Shelter-in-place orders were issued by some states.

    We close for now to save our fellow citizens while the world over heroes are in a life and death battle with a deadly foe that cannot think. We can, which is why ultimately we will see victory here.

    Sometimes it's the simple things:

    Israeli doctor in Italy says new, innovative treatments ‘flattening the curve:’ Carmi Sheffer describes connecting patients to ventilators via scuba gear, placing them on stomachs, in battle with unpredictable virus which ‘spreads like wildfire’ among elderly. “One technique he said had yielded dramatic results was to have patients lie on their stomach instead of on their back while on a ventilator.”

    [​IMG]
    Not All Heroes Wear Capes

    Medics have been forced to be creative, giving an example from the city of Parma where patients who couldn’t be put on a respirator using a tube were attached to it using a snorkeling mask, with a part that connects it to the machine being printed in a 3D printer.

    [​IMG]

    One technique he said had yielded dramatic results was to have patients lie on their stomach instead of on their back while on a ventilator. “Suddenly the oxygen level in the blood jumped by hundreds of percents,” he said.

    “I think the worst is behind us. We will control the virus and flatten the curve within a few weeks, but the closure will continue until June,” he predicted. “Italy is ahead of Israel by something like a month, so in my opinion, [in Israel] it will end only in July.”

    “I feel like I’m learning more about respiratory illnesses now than during all the 16 years since I started studying medicine,” he said, likening the teamwork in the hospital to basic training in the Israel Defense Forces.

    “We are soldiers in the biggest army in the world.”

    Thank you Good Sir for your service to Humanity. May your brain stay sharp, your strength inexhaustible, and your health unwavering.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  6. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    The article says he said permanently. That means forever
     
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  7. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you go to more reputable news organizations you will see the Mayor is NOT saying "permanently". The OP has a history of linking to
    questionable sources for news and making bombastic headlines.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  8. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But, after this crisis is over, that won't withstand a trip to the Court.
     
  9. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Jpost is reputable.

    Here it is on video, now did he say permanently or not?... https://twitter.com/matthewschmitz/...es-if-they-dont-comply-with-social-distancing




    Other media...

    De Blasio threatens to permanently close places of worship that resist shutdown order
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-places-of-worship-that-resist-shutdown-order


    Bill De Blasio Threatens To Permanently Close NYC Churches If They Don’t Comply With Social Distancing
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/bill...es-if-they-dont-comply-with-social-distancing
     
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  10. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    `Specially if dey been...

    ... scratchin' dey's butts...

    ... or pickin' dey's noses!
     
  11. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    You mean he does not use the democrat run fake news sites like MSNBC and CNN
     
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  12. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    It may not withstand it now
     
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  13. IranianStudent1

    IranianStudent1 Member

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    Islamic mosques closed already, I suppose.
     
  14. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    I think it will given his emergency power, but that ends with the crisis.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  15. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not as long as they're just applying the same rules and laws that apply to any other organisation. If bars, restaurants or stadiums were staying open in the same way, I'd expect them to face the same threats. Freedom of religion isn't unconditional.

    There will be a legal responsibility for everyone to avoid threats to public health and legal responsibility of the government to take action to prevent them. The guidelines advise how best to achieve that. They could be reasonably adjusted in different individual circumstances but not blindly ignored.

    Maybe there aren't any mosques remaining open? He didn't say anything about the vast majority of churches and synagogues which have closed either. This isn't an attack on religion, it's an attack on a specific subset of people because of their actions, not their beliefs.
     
  16. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't think he can really do anything to stop them....

    now is it wise for them to go, absolutely not, but if they choose to put themselves and others at risk, not much one can do about it

    not sure on the mosques, are any remaining open?

    if church's and synagogues were closing, but mosques refused too, I wonder if we would get the same response from the right
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  17. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    Progressives are out of the closet. They used to hide the fact that they are the American rendition of European Nazis and Fascists. Their new found candor is refreshing.
     
  18. LogNDog

    LogNDog Well-Known Member

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    This is the reason I have totally isolated. I don't trust anyone. That people are stupid enough or ignorant enough that a mayor even has to threaten this kind of thing is an indicator of mass stupidity. It's denial that they won't get sick or they won't make someone else sick because that kind of thing just happens to other people. They take the chance of possibly killing off people that they might infect. People just don't get it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
  19. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is DiBlasio's Constitutional authority to do so?
     
  20. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're talking about the revocation of rights without due process. That's wrong on so many levels. This is why nobody should ever vote Democrat, nothing but tyrants when given any special powers...
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Well, they are exercising emergency authority. That does not give them free rein to violate constitutional rights. The existence of the emergency may justify limiting the scope of certain rights, at least on a temporary basis. Two rights need to be considered for businesses, even non-profits: due process and just compensation.

    DUE PROCESS
    The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides that no person may “be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” Procedural due process requires certain procedures before a law is applied, such as notice or the opportunity to be heard. Substantive due process looks at the validity of the law being applied.

    The Supreme Court has found that there are emergency situations in which postponing notice and hearing does not deny due process. If temporarily excused, customary due process procedures—including notice and an opportunity to be heard—will be required when the exigency subsides.

    Where the government action does not discriminate against minority groups or curtail fundamental rights, courts will employ a “rational basis review.” The law in question need only be rationally related to a legitimate government interest. Even outside emergency situations, courts rarely strike down laws under this test. Given the current circumstances, a court will be even more likely to defer to the government.

    TAKINGS
    Under the Takings Clause, the government may not take private property for public use “without just compensation.” But whether an action constitutes a “taking” often depends on the nature of the government’s action.

    Forced business closures
    If the government forces a business to close indefinitely due to the pandemic, it could be considered a “regulatory taking.” In Lucas v. South Carolina Coastal Council, the Supreme Court stated that government action depriving owners of “all economically beneficial or productive use of their land” is a taking requiring just compensation. But if the closure is only temporary, then a court will be much less likely to deem it a “taking”; the Supreme Court has said that property “cannot be rendered valueless by a temporary prohibition on economic use, because the property will recover value as soon as the prohibition is lifted.” Assuming that any closures are temporary, a takings argument is unlikely to prove successful. But longer-term closures, or specialized circumstances that are the equivalent of a permanent closure (such as a closure that imposes an extreme or peculiar hardship on a business), may bolster a takings claim.

    https://www.akingump.com/en/news-insights/covid-19-emergency-powers-and-constitutional-limits.html

    Many Many Many churches are protecting their elderly by live streaming.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  22. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Depriving 1st amendment rights has nothing to do with taking and has always been separated from business. This touches on freedom of religion and assembly. Any measures of revocation should require immediate judicial review. Too much at stake for anything less...
     
  23. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Having the government forcibly close houses of worship freaks a lot of people out. On the other hand, public gatherings during a pandemic put the public at risk. The non-profits can always take it before a judge, but, if the rule has been applied reasonably, evenly and temporarily, I suspect they will lose.
     
  24. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    This should be interesting.

    The Republican Governor of Florida just ordered all churches to shut down services as well.
    Now that the order has come from a Republican - do you feel the same way?
     
  25. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Republican governors have now ordered the same shutting of churches ... how do you feel about it now?
     

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