Obama Once Again Shows the World Weakness: Says ISIS is "not islamic".

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Grokmaster, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

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    I'm still waiting for the video of the Benny Hinn follower sawing off the head of an al Jazeera journalist for the greater good of Christianity.
     
  2. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing to watch how progressives rationalize this issue. They all came in with the same basic argument "ISIL is not representative of Islam just like Jim Jones/Tim McVeigh/David Koresh (insert Christian here) / was not representative of Christianity". Maybe a "Westboro Baptist!?!" for good measure. Nevermind the fact that the Qur'an expressly supports everything ISIL is currently doing. Nevermind the fact that the ISIL fighters have quoted the Qur'an and pointed to the life of Muhammad to support what they are doing. Nevermind that there are millions of Muslims in the world today who, apparently, don't understand their own religion as well as white progressives who live in the West and never did a moment's research on the subject outside of their Rachel Maddow viewership.

    >>>MOD EDIT Flamebait Removed<<<
     
  3. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    many a horrible atrocities happened during the inquisitions
     
  4. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

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    Yes and Christianity lifted itself out of the Dark Ages.

    Any more brilliant observations?
     
  5. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

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    I watched the speech and when I heard him say they aren't Islamists I actually giggled out loud. I thought he was directly insulting them while appearing not to. Can you imagine the anger a Middle Eastern Muslim would feel if an American citizen accused them of not even being true followers of their own religion? In their religion a non-believer is, I believe, perceived as an enemy. So when he accused them of not being Islamist he was actually insulting them to the point their own religion would turn on them if it were true. I thought he really was just taking a big jab at them to get under their skin and get them rattled. I didn't see it as him pandering to be politically correct, but rather as a first strike to (*)(*)(*)(*) them off. I could be wrong, but that's what went through my mind when I heard it.
     
  6. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    And what was done there was in direct contradiction with Biblical teachings. Not so with the atrocities committed by Muslims over the past 1400 years, which were in accordance with Qur'anic teachings.
     
  7. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

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    Obama is the biggest idiot in any room he walks into. Unless he is going to a fundraiser, however.
     
  8. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Obama is right and the whole international community including Muslims condemn their actions.. Its YOU who are telling us that ISIS represents Islam.

    Are you so willing to provide support for the likes of ISIS.. are you so willing to undermine the US, Europe and the Arab League? Extreme partisanship has you blinkered.
     
  9. Micketto

    Micketto New Member Past Donor

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    Not according to the Bible... or other Christians.

    Only to those who like to use them as an example of why Christianity is bad.
     
  10. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

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    We would. Considering the lefties are against all things nuclear, we would see the hypocrisy in Obama doing so. Now, if he focused the power of the sun on them or set up massive wind turbines to blow them away or ran over them in electric powered M1s, at least he'd be consistent.
     
  11. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

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    Uh, no. It's actually al-Baghdadi telling everyone that he and ISIS represent Islam.
     
  12. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You and I might believe that, but there are verses in the Qur'an and hadiths that state otherwise, most notably the Verse of the Sword.

    No, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi & Co. are not. They're acting in accordance with it.

    I'm not sure where in the Gospels Christians were told to burn people at the stake for "heresy" or creating an astrolabe. In light of that fact, Christians - most particularly the papal authorities - did get it wrong. However, that's not the case with the Qur'an and hadiths. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi & Co. can point to numerous passages in Islam's scriptural texts to justify and legitimize murdering their opponents.

    What we get right today are the Enlightenment and humanistic ideals that enable us to separate ourselves from the violent passages and mandates found within our respective religious texts and ideologies. However, that's not necessarily getting religion right.

    If it's not an explanation it's not an explanation - it doesn't matter whether I like it or not. You're not defending your position on theological grounds, and even if you could you would be defending it based on your own interpretation. Unfortunately, when we start talking about interpretations - and there are many of them within the Muslim community and faith - you can't make black and white out of gray. Are the Sunnis right, or are the Shi'a or Ahmadiyya? Maybe the Wahhabis are, but then again, maybe the Sufis are?

    Certainly, interpretation plays a large role in that. Then there's the "cafeteria" approach to religion where people take what they like and ignore what they don't. However, I'm honest enough to know that if I am pro-Choice I cannot call myself a Catholic. I could call myself a "cafeteria" Catholic or a cultural Catholic, but I can't claim that I subscribe to the church's beliefs and dogma.

    Again, the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment moved us away from religion, whereas ISIS and their Islamist and jihadist co-travelers are moving towards it. You and I may say we've gotten it right and they've gotten it wrong, but let's be honest here - we're judging them on our own moral grounds, not their religious grounds and interpretations.
     
  13. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why should all believers of a faith be responsible for each other? I'm not responsible for the christians who kill in the name of Jesus, just as the guy who cleans my building isn't responsible for ISIS.


    Some see him as a warlord, some see him as a liberator. The conflict comes from historical context. But really, I don't really care who or what he was. He was a guy who promoted his religion in a time where violence and bloodshed was common.

    See my answer to your previous post above.

    Sure and the guy down the street might be plotting my downfall. Thoughts are personal, Actions are what defines a person.

    I look at it this way; If millions can be followers of Islam and be peaceful, then those who promote violence are doing it wrong. People who wish to be violent, will be violent. Religion just gives them an excuse. Same thing with people who blame Movies and Music and Video Games for violence. Those are just excuses. If someone wishes to do wrong, they will justify it to themselves however possible. Religion is the easiest out.
     
  14. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  15. SMDBill

    SMDBill Well-Known Member

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    I'm not telling you they represent Islam at all. But I'm of the belief that ISIS believes that to be true. I believe them to be the most dispicable, brutal and barbaric group I have seen in my lifetime, but it's not my opinion that matters in this. I don't believe Obama thinks they don't themselves believe they are followers and leaders who represent Islam, I'm saying that he took a shot right at them by accusing them of not being Islamists, knowing it would insult their beliefs and insult them personally.

    And for clarity, I didn't tell you anyone represents Islam. You misunderstood my statement and took my words to mean something entirely different than was intended. I'm curious how you made the jump from me believing the president made a presidential insult to a group of terrorists to me undermining nations?
     
  16. Inviolate

    Inviolate Banned

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    Barry the Weak. What a buffoon. He has no values, no principles, no morals. He is an Islamo appeaser and he does not have the intellectual capacity to understand that ISLAM is at war with us. He is utterly clueless and he is a feminized urbanite progressive leftist and he is a loser from start to finish. We need a real man in the white house.
     
  17. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure. And in the bible, you shall be cast out for wearing cloth with different fibers. Even Jesus said
    Mathew 10:34

    Accordance with their idea of what it means.

    Every scholar I can find that talks about it speaks on the fact that most passages are misquoted and mis-contextualized. Islam was persecuted from the get go, and most of Mohammeds teachings were of self-defense.

    Absolutely. And a great many people are able to move passed the violent origins of their religion (all of them have very violent origins) and promote peace.


    I'll go with the ones who promote peace. Always. What part of my explanation was unclear?

    Pro-choice doesn't automatically mean pro-abortion. It means realizing that you can't control anothers actions, and to allow them the freedom to make their own choices, and letting them deal with whatever judgement may or may not come from that.

    I do agree with your notion of the Cafeteria Religion. Take what you want and leave the distasteful parts on the table. Which is my full argument with those who criticize a religion for the actions of men.

    True. Christianity had its dark days, and we came out of it (ish). I believe Islam is going through that same thing right now (chronologically, Islam is where Christianity was during the dark ages.)
     
  18. Inviolate

    Inviolate Banned

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    Obama is just appeaseing these losers hoping that if we show we are weak and afraid they will stop killing us by acts of terror and war. In reality, his weakness emboldens them to greater atrocities. His theory is failed. His policy is failed. His presidency is failed.
     
  19. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    It was common during Jesus' time too, yet he was able to live his life and become a central prophet of a religion without murdering thousands upon thousands of people. I feel more comfortable when a Christian says Jesus was the perfect model for humanity than when a Muslim says the same exact thing.

    Millions of people willing to ignore the violent commands in the Qur'an doesn't mean those who do follow the violent commands in the Qur'an are doing it wrong. The Qur'an says what it says. Islam is what it is. If the majority willingly disagree with it, great, but that doesn't reflect on the religion itself.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Any specific section of those pro-Islam websites you are willing to elaborate on?
     
  20. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

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    Sure you are. We all are. I can no sooner abide by the slaughter of Muslims in Central Africa, then the wholesale slaughter of people who think differently than the adherents of ISIS.

    We are our brother's keeper.
     
  21. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It doesn't help non-Islamist Muslims combat the takfirists who are slitting their throats in Iraq and Syria, either. Evidently, many of our "progressive" friends are completely ignorant of the ideological battle raging within the Muslim world.

    That having been said, I find it curious how I'm the only person who has replied to your post. ;)

    'Sup, progs?
     
  22. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

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    I'm making fun of the insane notion that a televangelist is anything like an adherent of ISIS. Sorry, if that was over your head.
     
  23. Inviolate

    Inviolate Banned

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    That is so true! The radical Islamo's are the real Islamo's.
     
  24. edthecynic

    edthecynic Well-Known Member

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    The point, which went over your head, was millions can be religiously deceived by ISIS just as money grubbing televangelists can religiously deceive millions of Christians. The point is the techniques for deception are the same no matter how different the ends.
    Get it?
     
  25. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    [video=youtube;8WHZ6zJXS2w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WHZ6zJXS2w[/video]
     

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