Obama Once Again Shows the World Weakness: Says ISIS is "not islamic".

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Grokmaster, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. domer76

    domer76 New Member

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    It did? Certainly not evidenced by many of the self-proclaimed Christians on these threads
     
  2. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    We certainly know a hell of a lot more than you do. That much is plain.
     
  3. domer76

    domer76 New Member

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    The radical Obama-haters fail to recognize that
     
  4. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol…Just like abortion clinic terrorists are following the teachings of Jesus, eh?
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    exactly, hopefully Muslims can do the same someday

    .
     
  6. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Guffaw. Show us how abortion clinic terrorists are following the teachings of Jesus.

    At least Brewskier can back up his claims about ISIS:

    http://quran.com/9/29

    :roll:
     
  7. Labouroflove

    Labouroflove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The numbers might belie the reality of the thing. Fred Phelps, deceased, had how many followers or members of his Westboro church, 40? In a nation of 300+ million, 40 wouldn't seem a ground swell validating some religious sect.

    Now, how many would you say are members of IS? 30,000 - 40,000? (it just doubled in size over the last few months as it merges with Syrian rebels and incorporates the faithful flocking to it from around the world) Sounds like a growing congregation and significant within the 6 million Sunni community of Iraq, no?

    Add to this growing number those that lend support, tacit or otherwise that allows IS to exist and continue its mission. I'm thinking the number is much much higher.

    I might also heap into this off shoot of Sunni Islam the entirety of radicalized Muslims in the region, so let us say a few million. That's a proper religion, millions of active members; and its name is Islam.

    Cheer
    Labour
     
  8. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whatever you say chief. Last I check, words in a book can't kill people. Only people can murder.

    It was to show that both books (and the Torah as well) have passages in it that promote things that most followers understand are contextual to the time, but have no place in this day and age.

    It is wrong to murder someone. Almost every faith has that as one of its main tenants.

    Interesting. It would be my hope that those who follow the religion would see that for what it is, but unfortunately we don't live in a perfect world.

    Glad we can agree on this point. As for my argument, the concept of people using religion to further their own goals is almost as old as the religions themselves.

    Why? Personal Responsibility is just that. Personal. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Judge not lest ye be judged. Basic tenants of the christian faith.

    As do I. We are in a tumultuous time, but I think we will come out better and stronger for it. There are going to be some dark days, to be sure.

    Yeah, a lot of that gets missed around here.
     
  9. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    What percentage of 1.3 billion Muslims, worldwide, is 30-40,000? Do the arithmetic and get back to us.
    (The rest of your post is no more than unsupported guesswork and assumption).
     
  10. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    Which teachings of Jesus, Joe? Be specific.
     
  11. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, let's do some math and compare how many Americans support Westboro Baptist versus how many Muslims support groups like al Qaeda and its ilk.

    According to Pew Research, support is running at a median 13%, which comes to about 170 million Muslims.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-low-before-and-after-osama-bin-ladens-death/
    http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

    Now you do the math on what percentage of Americans support WBC and get back with us. I guarantee you won't find 40 million Americans who support them.
    .
     
  12. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    Except ISIS is only one of the many groups who subscribe to radicalized Islam. Most estimates out there place the percentage of radicalized Muslims at 15% of the Muslim population, or nearly 200 million in the world. Hardly an insignificant number, don't you think?
     
  13. bobov

    bobov New Member

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    When the Klan lynched a black man, we understand they were carrying out the ideology of their society even though most Southerners would not themselves have put a noose around someone's neck. There were Nazis who didn't murder Jews; Soviets who didn't murder landowners; Chinese communists who didn't murder college graduates, etc. That doesn't mean the Klan, Nazis, Soviets, and Chinese communists were fine people by and large. It only means that it was a minority who accepted the responsibility of carrying their beliefs to their logical conclusion.

    It's a sadly familiar trick to claim that what makes a group look bad is not representative. Everybody does that. The excuses we prefer reveal our allegiances. It seems President Obama prefers to make excuses for Islamists some of whom behead Americans, and slaughter, torture, and oppress innocent people around the world. Yes, there are Islamists who don't do this. But just like the KKK, Nazis, Soviets, and Chinese communists before them, the "activists" carry out the wishes of their fellows while letting the majority keep their hands clean.

    The Koran calls for hatred and violence against Christians, Jews, and all non-believers. The Christian and Jewish holy books contain nothing like it. How can anyone pretend hatred and violence are not essential to Islam if they've read the following Koran verses?

    As a child, President Obama studied for a time in a madrasah - an Islamic religious school. How could he not know this? And knowing it, why would he conceal it?

    [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

    [9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

    [9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    [9.50] If good befalls you, it grieves them, and if hardship afflicts you, they say: Indeed we had taken care of our affair before; and they turn back and are glad.
    [9.51] Say: Nothing will afflict us save what Allah has ordained for us; He is our.Patron; and on Allah let the believers rely.
    [9.52] Say: Do you await for us but one of two most excellent things? And we await for you that Allah will afflict you with punishment from Himself or by our hands. So wait; we too will wait with you.
    [9.53] Say: Spend willingly or unwillingly, it shall not be accepted from you; surely you are a transgressing people.
    [9.54] And nothing hinders their spendings being accepted from them, except that they disbelieve in Allah and in His Apostle and they do not come to prayer but while they are sluggish, and they do not spend but while they are unwilling.
    [9.55] Let not then their property and their children excite your admiration; Allah only wishes to chastise them with these in this world's life and (that) their souls may depart while they are unbelievers.
    [9.56] And they swear by Allah that they are most surely of you, and they are not of you, but they are a people who are afraid (of you).
    [9.57] If they could find a refuge or cave or a place to enter into, they would certainly have turned thereto, running away in all haste.
    [9.58] And of them there are those who blame you with respect to the alms; so if they are given from it they are pleased, and if they are not given from it, lo! they are full of rage.
    [9.59] And if they were content with what Allah and His Apostle gave them, and had said: Allah is sufficient for us; Allah will soon give us (more) out of His grace and His Apostle too; surely to Allah do we make our petition.

    [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

    [3.85] And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

    [9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

    [5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,

    [47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

    [8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.

    [3.28] Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

    [8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
     
  14. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The Koran does NOT call for hatred and violence against Christians, Jews or non-believers.. Why don't you actually READ it?

    Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians are People of the Book brought to God by earlier revelations.. Non-believers are never to be harmed unless they make mischief in the land. Why do you keep repeating that ignorant mantra of lies?
     
  15. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Which estimates, and whose are they?
     
  16. bobov

    bobov New Member

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    "That ignorant mantra of lies" consists of quotes from the Koran. Explain that if you can. You'd have a point if I'd made this up, but it's all direct quotes. You make me suspect you have a hidden agenda when you rush to deny the obvious.

    Yes, I know about "the people of the book." At the start of his career, Mohammed wanted to ally himself with Christians and Jews. They rebuffed him, so he changed his tone. The later parts of the Koran hold the hate. One must add that schools, madrasahs, publications, TV, politicians' speeches, etc., throughout the Islamic world are veined with hatred. Hate is the background music of Islamic society the world over. Whether it be Indonesian Muslims murdering Roman Catholics, Palestinians terrorizing Christians in Bethlehem, Egyptians burning Christian churches, or scores of similar outrages, Islamic culture reveals itself to be a culture of hatred and violence. If you and Obama want to deny this or make apologies, go ahead, but you only shame yourselves.
     
  17. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2003/10/how-many-islamists

     
  18. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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  19. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, Post #136. :above:

    Have you done the math on what the percentage of 40 out of 313 million people is yet? We're still waiting for you to get back with us...
     
  20. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    Since a census has never been done for the entire Muslim population on Earth, we only have statistical sampling to go off of.
     
  21. Radio Refugee

    Radio Refugee New Member

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    Political correctness invades all places. Bush was a gutless wonder as well.

    And then he invaded Iraq. I forgive the PC lie.
     
  22. Lowden Clear

    Lowden Clear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well . . .

    He couldn't possibly alienate the religious group that loves him most.
     
  23. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well its an opinion that is far more valid than any of yours, since it a fatwa from a learned muslim scholar.

    I did provide you with a few more learned sources, but actually learning something that is counter to your own bias seems to be too much bother.

    Its not like this information is hard to find, so perhaps its just too hard for some to swallow.
     
  24. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that particular quote is in reference to the polytheists.
     
  25. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    Take a look at the statistics I posted in post # 142 and reflect on whether your choice to hold up one Muslim's opinion is really that strong of a rebuttal. How could those millions upon millions of people be wrong about their own religion if their beliefs are really as separated from the religion of Islam as you like to claim it is? And how are we to know that this n=1 source of yours is telling the truth, given that they are encouraged to lie to non-Muslims in the advancement of Islam?

    It just seems like you're another progressive who wants warm-and-fuzzy feelings for being multicultural and tolerant, the weight of the evidence be damned.
     

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