Off the Chart Universal and Multiversal Models.

Yeah, that's a toughie. Especially since we don't know a lot about the Neutrino now.

So, taking the multiverse into play, the Neutrino would be in a super position of all states, and it won't collapse into a single state because I don't think there's a conscious mind that can interact with Neutrinos. (except maybe if it has a magnetic moment it might trip something.)

I don't know, how does the weak force interact with the superposition? We've already talked about superposition in electrons. Is it the same?

The quantum affect regarding the Neutrino is that it oscillates between flavors. I didn't really understand the math, but it seemed to be some sort of angle/rotation matrix regarding when the flavors change. If there's an infinite number of these things in the multiverse I don't see what affect they are having.

Yup, trying to figure it out, that's like HELL!!! And you're the multiverse guy, so if it stumps you I don't see what chance I have in understanding it.

Well, I'm sure this will all be worked out sometime in the next 75 years.

 

I don't even have a concept in my mind regarding the mass of these things. We don't know enough to say yet so the mass might be from anything.

Yes it might not get its mass from the Higgs field. There are problems with that being the case. But there are problems with Neutrons being Majorana particles as well. For one they can't interact electromagnetically.

There needs to be a third option.

 

Now, here's the thing Beta decay produces the following convertion:

Energy + p → n + e[SUP]+[/SUP] + ν[SUB]e[/SUB]
p = Proton
n = Neutron
e[SUP]+[/SUP] = Positron
ν[SUB]e[/SUB] = Electron Neutrino


But the detection of an incoming Antineutrino is as follows:

Energy (>1.8 MeV) + p + v̅[SUB]e[/SUB] → n + e[SUP]+[/SUP]
p = Proton
v̅[SUB]e[/SUB] = Electron Antineutrino
n = Neutron
e[SUP]+[/SUP] = Positron

It seems like there's that same Neutron and Positron. The only difference is that the Antineutrino is on the other side of that conversion. If this were basic math the Antineutrino would have the opposite sign of the Neutrino. That's what I meant earlier when I said the Antineutrino seems to cancel out the Neutrino.

 

True. Neutrino oscillations are a big mystery. Scientists can't even agree if they have a normal mass hierarchy or an inverted one.

Trying to understand them is way too complicated for me.

 

Oh well you did a good job. Nice having that conversation with you.

 

AboveAlpha.... you Sir are one of the most astonishingly well informed people that I have ever met in my life. For a while there...… I was wondering if you could actually be three to five geniuses cooperating on a project!

Although my IQ was only 118 when I took the SAT back in the early 1980's I am one of the most astonishingly egotistical people that I know. Back when I joined one of the MSN chess communities, I immediately picked a squabble with somebody who had a grand master rating. Their name was King Cobra if I remember correctly and I simply stated to them that I was wondering how many moves I could survive against somebody who was classified as "Grand Master."

They accepted my challenge and in five minutes we had made over fifty moves and although I had just lost my Queen..... I was still alive!

Well........... if I was going to pick an "opponent" for a metaphorical game of chess with seven billion unlimited movement variable....... I would pick YOU Sir!


http://www.politicalforum.com/opini...e-see-remains-rabbi-nachman-taken-israel.html

 

Wow!!!!

And on that note...… P- K4........ (I will grab white)..... and go down to dig up that old chess set that I haven't used in quite some time...…


http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=347704&page=5&p=1064918279#post1064918279

Nobody is perfect................. but a friend of mine from St. Francis Xavier did suggest that Canada and Russia should discuss cooperation on a "Unified Theory of Modern World Problems".........… and I have to admit that my brilliant young friend......although naive........ was onto an idea with great potential!

(AboveAlpha… if you will accept my offer to play a game of chess........ please include the list of all moves .... including your newest one......… so that I don't get confused)?

The rather obvious metaphor....(is that the correct figure of speech for this)....is that I have chosen to make it look like I am merely a pawn.......... in a much larger struggle..... but in the year 2015...… a humble "pawn" can alter the way the world thinks! For clarification.... my more is White..... King Pawn to King 4...… it is amazing how many people misunderstand how I wrote that.... I know that you would not..... but other people reading this might do so)!?

 

I had a thought about this. What if we could devise a method that would check to see ONLY if a photon (etc.) was in a certain position, and no other? Could we not then force it to be in that position, effectively creating the quantum world the way we want it to be, through selective investigation? Even if we have to keep checking the same position many times; either we would find nothing (not locking the particle into any position), or we would find it where we looked (locking it there). Thoughts?

 

Here's the problem....the mear act of OBSERVATION changes the outcome...locks in value and function.

Several experiments were done.....where a SINGLE ELECTRON was conducted and had two pathways to..."CHOSE"....to travel....as reistance of each of the two passages was made certain to be 100% EQUAL RESISTANCE!!!

One pathway led to a GROUND.

The Second Pathway lead to a Nano Sized Electrical Motor.

The experiment was conducted many times....SOME TIMES THE MOTOR WOULD BE ACTIVATED.

SOME TIMES THE ELECTRON WOULD GROUND.

But in many cases.....BOTH THE MOTOR WAS ACTIVATED AND THE ELECTRON ALSO GROUNDED!!!

Now this experiment was designed and checked and rechecked to make 100% CERTAIN......as we do have the capability to measure SINGLE ELECTRON EVENTS.....and the experiment was checked even more than that!!!!

The CONCLUSION AND REALITY........

The Electron which like Photons obtains FREQUENCY.....within the Frequency State EXISTS IN INFINITE NUMBERS!!!

In a Photon Wave Packet....Frequency Cycles or Waves.....the Frequency is the Wave at which either Photons or other Quantum Particle/Wave Forms on the Electromagnetic Spectrum such as Different Colors of Visible Light....IR-Light....X-Rays, Gamma Rays....Radars....Microwaves....and Electricity.....well along the Wave Packet or Wave Curve and Distance between waves......EXISTS AND INFINITE NUMBER OF ELECTRONS if we are talking Electrons.

They all exist in a state of SUPERPOSITION!!!

This is also why sometimes Electrons might UNDERGO DIVERGENT UNIVERSAL BLEED OVER and be able to not onl round out but as well power the Micro Electric Motor.

It is nice talking to a member that is interested in talking or debating.

AboveAlpha

 

You didn't complete your thought. I'm sure the membership are all curious:

What happened to the Electron after it had to make a choice?

And, what does that have to do with observation?

 

Perhaps you misunderstand me, because locking value and function through observation is not "the problem" in my proposal - it's the point. If you ONLY observe if an electron is in a certain position (NOT observing if it is any other position), then either it is in that searched-for position (in which case we have locked it there), or it is not (in which case it is still in superposition and we can try again).

 

I actually, probably, know what happened to the Electron. I was just being a pain!

The Electron actually took both paths despite the resistance because a multiverse is in play, and in it the Electron took one path an infinite number of times and it also took the other path an infinite number of times.

And this happens because the Electron is in a super position. But, not only that, this is an indication of divergent universal states of reality bleeding into our own. Because in this state it's doing both actions at the same time.

All of this happens when no one it looking up until the moment it's observed, but when it's observed its wave function collapses thus locking it into a single state and function.

Edit: Oh wait you updated your post!!!

 

I like what you're thinking!

Change the quantum world from the one it is into the one we want it to be.

I had a thought that such a thing might be used by beings in the late Universe to try and hold off the inevitable collapse of the Universe. Whatever end the Universe might take.

 

While I don't understand how this relates to the idea that I posted (selective observation), this is very interesting and sounds as though it might be a way to "cheat" conservation of mass/energy and pull free electrons from other universes.

 

In that experiment the electron was NOT OBSERVED....that is why it was able to both run the micro electric Nano Motor and travel down another pathway to a ground.

More experiments have been done where 3,4 and 5 outcomes have occurred.

AboveAlpha

 

Well....it's not cheating....for every Electron that Bleeds in...one must also Bleed ut.

AboveAlpha

 

Then how can one electron both ground AND activate the motor?

 

This happens prior to Observation.

If this experiment was being Observed this could not occur.

It is only observed after the effects.

AboveAlpha...p.s...Prior Observation would limit the Electron to only ONE VALUE AND ONE FUNCTION.

AboveAlpha

 

But, according to your premise, all those superpositions are coming from other universes, so if it's grounding while also activating the motor, then it's effectively using two electrons for the price of one, and stealing electron usage from two universes simultaneously. THAT is what I mean by "cheating".

EDIT: You really don't have to keep explaining the "observation locks value" thing. I got it.

 

Look at it this way.....particle/wave duality.

At every single possible position of a Wave Form a Photon or Electron can be detected.....but once detected it's ability to exist in Superposition ends.

In Quantum Processors and Computers.....Quantum Superposition and Quantum Teleportation are what make a 1000 Quibit Quantum Computer faster than 10 Networked IBM Supercomputers....by a scale of 10,000 times faster.

These computers must be made robotically and not even a FLY can exist in the clean room assembly line as a FLY'S OBSERVATION would render them useless.

How is it possile that these Quantum Processors are able to use Infinite Particle/Wave Form Superposition Capabilities as they do not calculate just the question...they calculate ALL QUESTIONS PUT TO THEM AT THE SAME TIME.....but only one answer will be specific to OUR UNIVERSAL REALITY.

Answer.....Quanta exist in a state of SUPERPOSITION IN ALL DIVERGENT UNIVERSAL STATES OF REALITY AT THE SAME SPACE-TIME OVERLAP.....until Observed.

AboveAlpha

 

INFINITE.....goes in BOTH DIRECTIONS.

Not only do we have -5,-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3,4,5...etc. But so does every other Divergent Universal Reality.

Math explains it better.

Words tend to fail.

AboveAlpha

 

Our conversation seems to be as ships passing in the night. You just seem to keep restating the same thing in different ways (a thing which I already knew many years ago) - while I am trying to make a new point and expand the conversation. But I will try again. Since you bring up quantum computing, that is another example of what I am talking about. By utilizing all possible states of a particle, quantum computers are (if your premise is correct) using not just one "electron" at a time, but delving into many "divergent universal states" and gaining effectively many at once (i.e. "cheating" the universe). I KNOW this is because it's unobserved. That was never in question.

 

The thing is...Energy Conservation only becomes an issue AFTER OBSERVATION AND AFTER FUNCTION AND VALUE OCCUR.

Prior to this....there is no issue.

AboveAlpha

 

This post, I think, illustrates the disconnect we are having. My point is that while still in superposition, ALL electrons have "bled in" simultaneously, giving us access to infinite electrons at once, such that, from a single electron, we can gain the effects of many, such as the ground + motor activation you mentioned. For instance, what if, instead of a ground and a motor, we had 1000 motors in the same type of system. A single electron could power all those motors at once using various superpositions- thus cheating energy conservation.

 

That's what I have been saying.

As Energy cannot be Destroyed and only Transformed....if during Superposition more than one Electron is set into our Universal Reality.....the extra one we gain must bleed out in one way or another.

The Laws of Conservation only apply if the Universe was a Closed System....it is not.

AboveAlpha