... opposes homosexuality because of the Bible...

lol

 

I love using this argument against conservative Christians. Their reply is very predictable. They try to apply cultural relativism to the slavery issue, but keep the biblical passages on homosexuality off-limits to any sort of cultural interpretation.

 

Especially when Jesus condoned slavery.

Whoops!

 

Why are liberals so obsessed with homosexuality?

 

I am not aware that Jesus was ever recorded speaking on the issue of slavery.

Well, I studied gender/sexuality as an undergrad so....

 

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)



Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

 

We frequently hear that we in Southern California are living in the future compared to the rest of the country. We hear about GLBTQ rights, military service and marriage, but in reality these issues were pretty much understood out here since before my time in about the 1970s. The United States must really be slow compared to California and the rest of the civilized world. Gays here have had their own beach beach for 50 years between Malibu and Santa Monica. You walk into the Penguin bar on the beach in Venice, you or your wife could get propositioned. We take it as a compliment when it happens. I guess I don't see what the big deal is. Working in the Entertainment Industry we would be creatively lost if it was not for gays, lesbians, and bisexuals.

 

Those are from the Epistles of St. Paul, not the words of Jesus. And here I was all prepared to learn something new.

 

True, however most Christians do not differentiate.

 

You also have to question them if they do. It's not like any of the words purportedly from Jesus are straight from the divine horse's mouth anyway.

 

That's not true.

Even in the old testament, slavery was more a form of indentured servitude and the time of service was limited to 7 years.

 

WOW is the first thing that I can think of.... Been there seen that... I'd say nothing against your home state, but actually I have plenty against it...(Not all the people just the policies) Personally, I wouldn't live in Cali if they gave the entire state to me, but hey that's just me. Some wouldn't care about living in my part of the world either so I guess everyone has to find somewhere that suits them. I just hope I'm dead and gone long before the South takes the turn toward California...

 

I am not even sure that is true. It is more of a Protestant thing to say, rather than a Christian thing in general. Considering there are 1.2 billion Roman Catholics, about 250-300 million Eastern Orthodox, and about 800 million Protestants, even if 75% of Protestants adhere to such a belief, most Christian still do not believe such an absurdity.

Historical records are always at least a little doubtful. Yet, I think a measure of doubt is healthy for faith. Søren Kierkegaard, one of my greatest inspirations, certainly thought so.

Oh, that is not even remotely true. Leviticus 22:44-46 rules out such a view of ancient slavery even in the time of Israel. If I am not mistaken, the time of indentured servitude was a rule that only applied to insiders (i.e. Hebrews), but that outsiders (i.e. Gentiles) were allowed to be kept as property indefinitely.

 

Unfortunately, your as well to forget trying to prove the meanings of Bible verses..... Those that are set against religion are quick to point to a verse in the Bible and make it mean what they want.... Even if they realize that words do have multiple meanings.
They refuse to admit that Christianity is based on LOVE and constantly try to skew it to sound like the Bible is a hate filled book that makes no sense to anyone. If you approach it that way then sure, there are plenty of ways you could read into it that way...

 

And we have a winner.

 

Oh that was funny.

 

Humor me.... Why was it so funny?

 

Well you humored me so I suppose I should return the favor.

Tell me who should prove the meanings of the Bible verses? If no one then its useless so who? Who gets to say what it means? Who gets to say what is meant to be literal or metephorical?

No most people who are against Religion point to a verse because it means what the religious say it means. They point to a verse and say it may mean this now but it used to mean something else to the people who started said religion. There is a difference between having something mean whatever you want it to (religion) and commenting on what the religious say it means and why (non-religion).

We comment on the Christians own "meanings" of the bible and more specifically on their actions. 2,000 years of war, murder and oppression do not compare to a few charities and poems.

I laughed because your delusion is secured by the very thing you are offended by in your post.

 

The Jesus story is not an historical record. It's myth.

 

It's easy to forget about the LOVE part when there's so much of the opposite spewing from Christianity's followers, and even their pulpits. Then there's the faith-empowered rank ignorance of so many..

I'm supposed to believe that these people - http://creationmuseum.org - understand reality better than, say, Dr. Dawkins or even my humble myself?

 

First off I think you need to consider that I said the Bible has to be approached from a loving point of view or otherwise it does appear that there is hate in the words. Jesus continuously spread the ideas that EVERYTHING must be approached from that angle thus I feel like Christianity IS a love based religion. So as for WHO should interpret what the meanings of the verses are.... I'd say anyone that approaches it with the idea that the religion is based on love.
A bunch of keyboard cowboys that use google to look up a few verses of the Bible or the contradicting ones anyway.... are not apt to be the most ideal candidates....

As for the actions that Christians portray... I can't justify their behavior, but I can say that Jesus did not teach violence and the teachings of the Christian religion is based on forgiveness and love.
There may have been 2000 years of war and oppression around the religion, but usually they were the ones being oppressed by some other nation.
As far as that goes, wasn't war a normal thing for almost all groups of people historically? I mean aren't we still fighting a war right now even.... Does that have anything to do with the Christian religion?

I didn't get offended by anything... I actually don't mind talking about this because I wonder exactly why people don't believe sometimes, and now I see.

 

Your free to believe as you choose... As I'm sure we have come to the agreement that neither of us are going to change our views as based on other threads.
I will however correct you on one thing. Christianity is not based on hate in any way. People that claim to be Christians may have hate for something, but the religion itself is not based on hate.
I don't hate a gay person for being gay, I don't agree with it, but I don't hate the person.
There are a lot of people that claim to be a Christian but in reality they do so simply because it is the social thing to do. They enjoy going to church and seeing their friends and talking about the neighbors. Does that make them better than me because I don't go to church.... NO! As I've said before, I don't claim to be a fire and brimstone kind of person, but I do have faith and think the Christian way is righteous. I do think there is a greater power in our universe, and I do think there is a Heaven and Hell for the souls of mankind, and I do think Jesus Christ died on the cross for the sins of man.
You don't have to agree with me or you can if you so choose. That is up to you, but I'm just doing my Christian duty and spreading the word.... My conscience is clear and I sleep well at night.... Are yours? Do you ever think.... Oh I MIGHT be wrong??? If so.... that's the tug.

 

You can't tell me this is a typo when you do it consistently.

And yes, Christianity is based on hate. People love to hate. It comes very naturally. Christians love to hate whatever they term sin - I think it all feeds into a scapegoat complex, another basic element of the human psyche, allowing them to direct their hate and rage toward homosexuals and others who don't live up to their standards.

While there is talk of love in biblical texts, it gets overshadowed by the rules and the hatred. Love is accepting and forgiving, something far too many Christians clearly are not.

You do your "Christian duty" (as I used to do - ho hum) And no, I never think I might be wrong at this point I did when I was Christian, though Oh yes. Believing in ancient superstitions that were clearly made up by pre-scientific people for such purposes as social control and personal aggrandisement when science had blown it all away definitely left me worried. I was telling lies and desperately clinging to a fable simply for the sake of an empty promise of eternal life. I could warp my thinking to biblical claims, which of course meant excusing the purported genocidal and maniacal acts and ideas of Yahweh, but god, what a waste of my time and effort that was!

The only "cross" Jesus died on was the cross of the zodiac. That's reality, sad yet interesting as it is. An ancient solar allegory has been warped into a literal story today and is clung to by millions and millions of ignorants, all because they, too, want to live forever.

 

Have you ever heard of omg, rotflmao, hmu, or any other of the ten thousand shortcuts that people use on a daily basis in the world of type and texting???
Evidently not... For your information I don't type the ampersand on any of my conjunctions and if type youre in this forum it puts the little red line under it instead of correcting it like it does for other conjunctions and that annoys me so GET OVER IT. I know what the words mean as does everyone else on here. If you can't stick to adult conversation instead of trying to say someone is not capable of understanding basic English then maybe you shouldn't reply to my posts...

As for Christianity being based on hate, Im afraid your wrong again. Christians themselves may have hate in their hearts, but the religion itself is NOT based on hate. You may see it that way since it continues to point out that if you don't turn you burn, but the religion itself has nothing to do with hate. In fact, everything Jesus did was to prove that kindness and love was what all Christians should portray in everything they do even to those that hate them.
You talk as though you were once a believer, so you should know that. Im not sure what you learned or thought you learned, but I fear it was skewed if you think Christianity is based on hate.

As for Jesus not dying on a cross... Come on really? I don't think that has been a debate for anyone. Maybe that he wasn't the Messiah, but never that he didn't die on a cross. Oh wait, your a man of science that has to have proof of everything.... Guess no one really lived back then since we cant prove it.

 

Wait, what? You're claiming that your spellchecker is complaining if you write proper English? omg, rotflmao, hmu, or any other of the ten thousand shortcuts that people use on a daily basis in the world of type and texting have nothing to do with you're vs your.

Jesus never existed outside of literature, so of course he didn't die on a Roman cross any more than Frodo really threw a ring into a volcano.

Oh wait, your a man of science that has to have proof of everything.... Guess no one really lived back then since we cant prove it. Men of science don't need "proof of everything," but a claim has to make sense and not violate observed & testable reality. There's a wealth of evidence available for people having lived during biblical times. I wouldn't call it "proof," as proofs belong in mathematics, but certainly it's reasonable to conclude that, yes indeed, people lived back then, based on evidence.

But that doesn't make their religious claims true. Consider Mormonism. You're not a Mormon, are you? Do you believe that Joseph Smith found those golden plates written in "reformed Egyptian" and translated them with the help of divinely gifted knowledge? Presumably you don't, yet other people do, and more importantly, other people did when his claims were fresh! Religious beliefs are not based on evidence. They're based on emotion and desire, on manipulation and other such factors. It always helps when a person of authority, such as a parent or a king, insists that the claims are true and you should believe, too.