Here are the actual figures, as regarding our national debt on January 20, 2009 (When Barack Obama originally assumed the presidency) vis-a-vis what that debt is today: Date--------------------------------------Total Public Debt Outstanding 01/20/2009------------------------------10,626,877,048,913.08 02/28/2013------------------------------16,687,289,180,215.37 Here is the link: Government - Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application) Basically, what this means is that, in just over four years, President Obama has added more that 6.06 trillion dollars to our national debt. (This is the cue for dyed-in-the-wool Keynesians to come out, and cry that he simply had no choice but to try to "stimulate" the economy; and that he probably should have spent even more...)
If Bush had stuck to the plan that was in place when he got into office the debt would have been zero instead of $10Trillion when Obama became president. The budget deficit projections for 2009-2010 were approaching $1Trillion as early as 2006, long before the economy imploded and Obama took office. The Bush tax cuts and major increases in expenditures, like the off budget wars and the Medicare drug benefit were back loaded so they would not generate massive deficits until after Bush left office. There is also the small matter of the Bush tax cuts expiring, which if my memory serves me correctly, were so vehemently opposed by the republicans that they held the government hostage until they were extended. That's half the $6Trillion right there. Another $Trillion from the bailouts, which were started under Bush but charged against Obama. Another $Trillion for the stimulus, an Obama initiative but a one time expense. That leaves the other $1Trillion spread over 4 years, or $250Billion a year. $100Billion a year for the wars, another $50Billion for the Medicare drug benefit. That leaves $100Billion a year, or $400Billion. Tax revenues were $360Billion lower in 2009 than in 2008 due to the recession and that continued into 2010 and 2011 for a total of lost revenue of around $600Trillion So really, the amount of added debt you can blame specifically on Obama is the $1Trillion stimulus minus lost revenue, or about $100Billion a year. Considering the state of the economy at the time it is not that much at all. The vast majority of the $6Trillion increase in the debt is directly the result of republican actions, the war, the tax cuts, the Medicare expansion. It is one thing for a government to run up the debt in dire economic times but it is unconscionable to do so when the economy is booming, which it was for most of Bush's time in office. It is also incredibly stupid to aim for drastic cuts in government spending when the economy is not growing. There is a time when government expenditures can be reined in and steps taken to reduce debt but that time is not when the economy is faltering between weak growth and recession. The EU is a prime example of that, as is Japan over the last twenty years. If you think the US is somehow exceptional you are an idiot.
Its not OUR debt its the GOVERNMENTS debt I don't recall my signing an agreement or promissory note or other obligation that I offered to pay a penny on this. I'm pretty sure no one reading this did. I owe nothing to anyone in this area.
When you say "our" who do you mean? It's the US government's debt. It's not my debt, and I am not responsible for paying any of it. The only people responsible for a debt are those who incurred it.
How does one's place of birth or residence force on to incur the government's debt? Does the debt precede life, such that those born here are pre-saddled with a share of the US government debt? To call it "our" debt is to use the language of nationalism, and imply that every individual is part of his or her government, and lives only by it's continued benevolence. You can pay off some of the debt if you believe that you have an obligation. That's just what the politicians want from you- mindless obedience to nationalist policy. I'm not responsible for what they have done with their power..
So what do you propose? A personal exemption from all government actions, activities and obligations that you do not agree with upon reaching majority? People who grow up here are well aware of what they are getting into by the time they reach majority. The choices are pretty simple, stay here and accept what already is, work to change it if you believe it is not right, or leave. Expecting a personal exemption for certain disagreeable things your nation has embarked upon because nobody asked you personally is not a choice because no one asked you what nation you wanted to be born into either. You are here and you need to deal with what is here because there are a lot of other people here too and a lot of things that have happened in the past that are still playing out. You need to just get over your solipsism.
The US government has only that money that it takes from American citizens, via taxation. I would imagine that this (astronomical!) debt will be paid down--eventually, paid off--by future generations, through higher taxation. And somehow, that hardly seems fair...
I'm just saying its not My or any Citizens debt since I never contracted this debt its the Governments debt. And as an adult I can opt into or out of such activities by my actions I can avoid doing things that require I pay taxes by not working or I can work for cash in the Underground Economy and not report any of that income and if there is a Draft I can refuse to serve or even refuse to sign up for the Selective Service as a young man. And I can choose to be patriotic or not. For example I refused to register for the Selective Service even though being disabled I would never be drafted for war for the simple reason since it was gender biased to just men and required I support also the governments right to Draft me which I always refused as their right, so I opted out of that. It in return had impacts but it was my free choice and so exempted myself from that program if I was willing to accept the penalties which were not that big really. And yes if they fined me or would jail me for refusing I would still have refused.
Well, if you wish to work for "the Underground Economy," so as to avoid taxes (these are usually not high-paying careers), I suppose you may do so. But I rather doubt that the next generation, and the generation after that, and the one after that, will choose to follow that pattern, in large numbers...
I just am saying those are all options, and your right with a nation of Sheep they will go along like Sheep in most cases.
Your contract with the government is implicit by your presence and explicit by your citizenship. As such you have agreed to take on whatever the government obliges you to and bear whatever consequences the government wishes to impose on you if you refuse. You can do whatever you want but you are under contract to behave in certain manners and bear the consequences if you do not. The matter of a few dollars to pay the national debt is trivial in this respect since you have already agreed to so much. I refused to register for the selective service when they were still drafting people into the military. Unlike yours, my refusal was not some semi-abstract political stance of little danger or consequence. I could have registered and got a deferment, which many of my peers did, but I chose not to. I was not and am not a pacifist, or disabled which would have been obvious grounds to excuse me. I did not simply refuse to participate but worked actively against the war. There was the imminent probability of me going to Federal Prison for refusing military service. i never though of this as somehow unfair or unjust. It was the deal that I was handed and if I wanted a different one then it was up to me to change the existing condition so I could get a better deal. The best way to do that at the time was to participate in and further political protest to the point of popular insurrection. Which I did as a teenager when me and my friends would skip school and go to the anti-war marches of the peacenik college students to provoke the police. We had no illusions, older brothers had been killed and maimed and become insane because of Vietnam already. There was no way that we were going and we just took it upon ourselves to convince everyone and anyone about that. At the "peace marches" we would collect bottles and rocks in our school bags and march with the college kids. When they were stopped at the police lines we would throw the rocks and bottles at the police from behind the front lines. The college kids would try to stop us but we just barked at them " F##k you, your not gonna get drafted" Then the police, suitably provoked, would fire the tear gas and charge. After getting tear gassed and beat with a billy club a lot more college kids began tossing rocks and bottles at the police and getting beaten and otherwise abused. Their parents became alarmed at their children being so abused and began to join their children to protect them, which morphed into a rejection of the whole concept of the Vietnam war by the middle class. That is how you change existing conditions. What's your plan?
I do not think it is at all "heep"-like to work in a profession (very few of which are of the underground variety), and therefore to pay taxes...
"Your contract with the government is implicit by your presence and explicit by your citizenship. As such you have agreed to take on whatever the government obliges you to and bear whatever consequences the government wishes to impose on you if you refuse. You can do whatever you want but you are under contract to behave in certain manners and bear the consequences if you do not. The matter of a few dollars to pay the national debt is trivial in this respect since you have already agreed to so much." - Quote unrealist42 I'm not chattel or a slave the circumstances of where I was born is not a contract using that logic a slave born in the US South pre-civil war was under contract to obey their masters since that was the rules in the US under law, I find the very idea offensive I'm bound due to circumstances beyond my control to owing the debt. In fact unless all on the planet could choose where they live as citizens say at eighteen regardless of where they were born this is a mute obligation poor and average Americans like those of other nations rarely have an ability to freely change citizenship. As for a small price and a few dollars like I stated its not my debt using your view its a "masters" debt as in the governments debt as in their debt asking me to pay it or anyone is ludicrous but if they care to send out the bill and see how many Americans pay up including businesses. "I do not think it is at all "heep"-like to work in a profession (very few of which are of the underground variety), and therefore to pay taxes..." - Quote from PJohns You would be surprised how many are done in the Underground Economy in the US and abroad.
Well in some way you are responsible for your government. Because the US is a democracy. If you don't like the way its going right now you can vote differently next elections. So actually it is your debt because the majority of the country voted for a certain party to represent your country and make decisions for you and the US citizens. That's the way your country works.
Slaves born in the US before the civil war certainly bore the consequences of their defiance to the laws that allowed and abetted slavery. You, and every other person on the planet, are bound by the circumstances they find themselves without regard to whether or not any of them are within or beyond control. To be personally offended at finding yourself under some particular obligation imposed by existing circumstance is a fairly ubiquitous human experience. Moral outrage is not far behind. However, if you take a moment to consider all the circumstances you have found yourself in and all the obligations they impose, the somewhat nebulous and hard to understand obligation to repay some tiny and undefined portion of the national debt from your as yet to be determined future income is a fairly ridiculous thing to direct your moral outrage at. We live in a democracy, this means the citizens are the masters and obligations taken on by the government are obligations of the citizens from which it is composed. The only way to separate yourself from your government in a democracy is to remove your citizenship. If the US was not a democracy you might have a moral position of some worth. But it is so you do not. There is a lot of reasons and motivations for people to participate in the underground economy. Tax avoidance is not even on the list of reasons and motivations for the vast majority who do so because they are more intent on avoiding far more immediate dangers, like the police and immigration authorities. In fact, people in the underground economy pay a lot of taxes and SS is even benefiting because all those people with fake SS numbers will never collect a dime in benefits.
Really? Politicians are elected by the majority, the minority have no say. The President can be elected by as few as 19% of the population. Democrats have given themselves quite the edge by making sure almost 50% are on the payroll to some degree, with SSI, Medicaid, welfare, or as a direct government employee. Are the politicians doing what we elected them to do? Did they stop Obamacare when polling was hugely against it? Even when it cost many politicians their seats? Sure, it adds more people to the government payroll, and secures the Democrats in future elections.
I am? I pay sales tax and taxes I can't avoid since they are tacked onto things but other taxes ... (whistles).
You will pay in other ways. At some point the debt will devalue the currency which is used to value everything you own. This is the most insideous form of robbery.
