Part 10 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

So much for free will.

 

Judge not, that ye be not judged.....that's from my Home Boy Matty.

You are not only judging but you are ASSUMING!

You assume I am an Atheist....I am NOT.

You assume a GOD exists....such a thing is UNKNOWN.

You JUDGE that a GOD which you BELIEVE exists and is FORGIVING...but AT THE SAME TIME....you also BELIEVE that this supposedly existing and FORGIVING GOD created a global disaster that hit earth because of man's evil and wickedness?????!!!!!????

Forgiving GOD?

Creating a GLOBAL DISASTER?

But such a GOD you also ASSUME is...and I quote.... He is laughing at you or not one thing I am sure He is forever forgiving....end quote WanRen.

I don't know about the rest of the membership here but if ANYTHING you say might have any truth or reality in it at all even in the smallest amount....I don't know about everyone else here but....I DON'T WANT ANY PART OR HAVE ANYTHING TO DO OR HAVE ANY RELATIONSHIP EXISTING WHATSOEVER WITH SUCH A....GOD!!!!!

Your GOD is...."forever forgiving"....yet has no problems whatsoever causing a Global Disaster! LOL!!!

Don't you see and understand both the STUPIDITY of such a belief and the total lack of LOGIC of your claims, beliefs and statements?

Now I support you RIGHT to believe anything you want to believe and I will and have fought and almost died to protect such U.S. Constitutional Rights.

But I would HOPE that you could at the very LEAST admit this belief of an...Endlessly Forgiving GOD who also is capable and has committed MASS MURDER upon a PLANETARY SCALE....is contradictory.

AboveAlpha

 

Of course you know He did not enjoy it, and furthermore you are wrong to say He was certainly glad. You have acknowledged the part in Scripture where He "regretted that he had made human beings on the earth." and so why are you not acknowledging the rest of the context of where your quote comes from? Let's bring in the complete text of verses 5 & 6 of where your quote comes from.

"The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled."---Genesis 6:5-6 NIV

The phrase, "...and his heart was deeply troubled" doesn't at all sound like God was glad and enjoying his wrath on the wicked, evil humans that were being punished and rightfully so considering that every inclination of the thoughts of their human hearts were only evil all the time...now does it?

Intellectual dishonesty is when one remarks on a quote taken out of context to deliberately falsify its true meaning.

 

You were a strong Christian at one time you told us, and so you should know the answer...or were you sleeping the day the preacher was giving his sermon on the new covenant?...lol

Yep, I guess you were sleeping...can't even spell the word covenant right...lol

 

Personally I think Intellectual dishonesty occurs when a person is smart enough to realize something that is infinitely ridiculous, scientifically and mathematically impossible and PROVEN to be impossible....and even such a person is smart enough to know this something is a contradiction in LOGIC and even conflicts this this persons own BELIEF SYSTEM......STILL refuses to admit these things are not true, not facts and did not happen to even themselves....even if they know such things are FANTASY.

Belief in GOD is one thing....and has a certain logic to support itself.

Belief in some Fantastic, Impossible STORIES written by Ancient Man and contained within a text that has been proven to have more mistranslations within it that SWISS CHEESE has less holes....such beliefs have ZERO LOGIC to support them and that is why ALL CURRENT CHRISTIAN SECT LEADERSHIP only views such Old Testament Stories as JUST THAT....NICE STORIES to tell children at bedtime to SCARE THE HELL OUT OF THEM....so they would keep in line!!! LOL!!!

Not the POPE or the Leaders of all Protestant Groups or any other Christian Leadership actually BELIEVE the entire GLOBE was flooded and covered with water as this would cause so much a change in Earth's Gravity as well as the added mass of Earth might cause us to escape Solar Orbit that all life would die.

These are CHILDREN'S STORIES...they are NOT for Adults to treat and believe as facts.

AboveAlpha

 

Then why did a God who is omni.... everything bother to create man. Or was it a trial effort.

Free will. This is something that has been discussed by Philosophers for millenia.

A recent trend is to suppose that agent causation accounts capture, as well as possible, our prereflective idea of responsible, free action. But the failure of philosophers to work the account out in a fully satisfactory and intelligible form reveals that the very idea of free will (and so of responsibility) is incoherent (Strawson 1986) or at least inconsistent with a world very much like our own (Pereboom 2001). Smilansky (2000) takes a more complicated position, on which there are two ‘levels’ on which we may assess freedom, ‘compatibilist’ and ‘ultimate’. On the ultimate level of evaluation, free will is indeed incoherent. (Strawson, Pereboom, and Smilansky all provide concise defenses of their positions in Kane 2002.)
If you wish to read the full article, and you'll wish you hadn't started, http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/

 

An extremely complex and purposefully obstruse way of stating an easily explained reality...we all decide what is free will, by our own actions.

 

I have already made great stride, truth is being reveal and misinformation, distortions and of course your favourite word lie has been very successfully refuted, rebutted and debunked. God does exist, Jesus Christ is the Son of God the history and facts of that is both in the Holy Bible and Encyclopaedia of history but most of all scientist especially Steven Hawking are now echoing the very words in the Bible "repent" or perish for them it is change or perish the message is the same the world will be destroy by man's wickedness.

 

Again...this is what you CHOOSE to BELIEVE.

And that is your right and there is nothing wrong with it.

But it is in fact a BELIEF and such a belief can only exist as a FAITH.

You cannot nor can anyone else PROVE that a GOD exists....nor can anyone DISPROVE a GOD exists.

Thus when you state...." God does exist, Jesus Christ is the Son of God"...end quote WanRen....such a GOD and such a Son of GOD exist for YOU....as it is YOUR FAITH and your CHOSEN BELIEF.

But just because you chose to believe this does not mean everyone else does.

Hey...don't get me wrong...I would just LOVE IT if this was a PROVEN REALITY....but there does not exist even the smallest amount of data that could be in any way considered as PROOF.

The reason I am saying this to you is for you to perhaps come to terms with this might help you understand how other people and other members have differing strong beliefs than yours and what I think you don't understand is how such members...myself included sometimes feel offended when you do not take other peoples rights to believe what they chose into consideration.

As example and I don't think you are doing this on purpose....this TOPIC"s NAME is specific to debating tough questions for the Christian Religion to detail or explain as there are a great number of contradictions in Christianity.

Now you and some others seem to also be offended by the name of this topic as to you it appears to be a purposeful attempt at invalidating your beliefs....and I am sure there are some members who might have taken advantage of it that way.....but when another member asks an HONEST QUESTION that is both Valid and pertains to this topic and you reply to such an honest question by spouting out endless lines quoting the Bible....and doing so without actually debating the topic or another members question...well it is offensive.

Personally I try to just stick TO THE FACTS AND REALITIES and EVIDENCE....and analyse such data and evidence and let the chips fall where they may.

AboveAlpha

 

Very good then you should listen to it.

Wrong I am presenting you are JUDGING AND ASSUMING.

I assume nothing you are what you reveal yourself to be.

Wrong I know GOD EXIST. He has already reveal Himself to us as through Jesus Christ and you are ignoring, denying and turning a blind eye on that KNOWN FACT in today's science that is called "state of denial".

I judge not, I know God is forgiving "Father forgive them for they know not what they do" "Today you will be with me in paradise" God has forgave even those that persecute Him that is an establish fact. It was men who destroyed themselves not God. Now I will assume. you are assuming the that it is better for men to be wicked and evil????

Definitely YES

Men created their own disaster not God. Global warming, climate change, nuclear weapons, WMD, AIDS, etc. you name it men created them all.

And I quote you "God is laughing at me" your quote not mine. My quote "God is all forgiving".

I understand accepting God is from ones own free will and if you can not accept the all forgiving and One True God that is your choice you always have that choice between good and evil.

You sure are making tons of assuming and pre judgement. Global disaster cause by men not God.

There is no stupidity in accepting truth only blind denial and extreme hatred towards God that is causing one to be in a state of selfishness.

The US Constitution that has it's blue print from the Holy Bible, God Bless America!

The only contradiction are men they want to commit mass murder, genocide, destroy the earth and they expect and want God to do nothing. Fortunately we have many holy men and women that are working hard in the name of God making this world a better place for all.

 

The Global Disaster I am referring to is the World Wide Flood you have been referring to with you know...the boat and the animals?

You see...how can a GOD be a Forgiving GOD yet commit Mass Murder on a Global Scale?

It is a contradiction and is not based upon any possible logic.

AboveAlpha

 

It is a contradiction because you want it to be one. It doesn't really say it was a global flood but since you want to make it out to be worse than it really was you are suggesting this. That's OK. You are wrong on that one but you seem to think this is worse than anything any human has ever done.

How many people could have there have been in those days? It was probably less than the amount atheist Stalin slaughtered. What about how many were killed when the US nuked Japan? Both recent events compared to the flood so are you upset about those as well?

 

You misunderstand me.

I have been saying upon multiple topics specific to the story of Noah that the Great Flood as depicted in the Bible was IN FACT based upon an actual massive Flood around 5600 BC.

The Black Sea deluge is a hypothesized catastrophic rise in the level of the Black Sea circa 5600 BC due to waters from the Mediterranean Sea breaching a sill in the Bosporus Strait. The hypothesis made headlines when The New York Times published it in December 1996, shortly before it was published in an academic journal.[1] While it is agreed that the sequence of events described did occur, there is debate over the suddenness, dating and magnitude of the events. Two opposing hypotheses have arisen to explain the rise of the Black Sea: gradual, and oscillating.[2]:15 The oscillating hypothesis specifies that over the last 30,000 years, water has intermittently flowed back and forth between the Black Sea and the Aegean Sea in relatively small magnitudes, and does not necessarily presuppose that there occurred any sudden "refilling" events.

LINK...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_deluge_hypothesis

AboveAlpha

 

Stalin killed more people than God. That's hilarious.

He probably killed 4 times more people than God ever did...and 400,000 times more people than Satan.

 

Agreed. But our actions are not our own. Our actions are guided by a multiplicity of other things. Our upbringing, the situation in which we live, the situation we find ourselves in at the time, beliefs that may have been instilled in us, lessons we have learned from life, etc. From the time we are very young to the day we die we have choices to make. Those choices come from our experiences.
If you think making a choice is 'free will', so be it.

 

Well....think about it, what is free will, if not the ability to choose for yourself?

 

Question:

Why does everybody argue about Evolution in the Religion Forum instead of Creationism? Evolution should be in the Science Forum.

Is Big Creation so powerful now that it can transcend it's proper forum and is thus too big to fail?

 

The miseries of mankind are a result of being disobedient to God. We have only ourselves to blame for that, it is our sinful nature, the destructive power of sin holds us all in bondage.

That is why we are all in need of a Savior, and God has provided us with a Savior, His only begotten Son Jesus Christ who paid the penalty for our sins by shedding His innocent blood on the cross as payment.

And yes, people who don't believe in God, who reject the sin debt payment that Jesus made for them will have to pay the penalty for their own sins by being punished and they will forever be separated from God for all eternity.

So the time is now for all to repent their sins, ask God for forgiveness and accept His Son Jesus Christ as your Lord Savior.

Well it's rather obvious you haven't been made aware of these two particular passages in Scripture. The first passage tells us that everyone who lived prior to Jesus Christ their sins have been pardoned by God and so they will not be condemned to hell and the 2nd passage tells us that anyone who lived after Jesus Christ and who have never heard His word, they will be judged fairly and justly by God and so depending on God's judgment, some of them will be saved and others will not be saved. And of course everyone who has heard His word, who accepts it and believes it will be saved, the ones who reject His word will be punished. Below are those two passages.

"For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus." ---Romans 3:23-26 NLT

"When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life."---Romans 2:12-16 NLT

No, the fate of humanity is not dependent upon the whole of humanity following the right God. You will never get everyone to believe in the same religion or anything else for that matter.

Jesus said, "You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it."---Matthew 7:13-14 NLT

 

So...again...let me get this straight.

On one hand you say...GOD is all forgiving....and then on the other hand you say....GOD is all CONDEMNING.

This post of yours is by far my favorite as it is a post anyone with even the barest minimum of logic or knowledge can look at and say to themselves....DAMN!!! If that is what GOD is all about GOD is REALLY SCREWED UP!!!

This is his post...."The miseries of mankind are a result of being disobedient to God. We have only ourselves to blame for that, it is our sinful nature, the destructive power of sin holds us all in bondage."...end quote Mitt Ryan.

You know I personally will defend your right to believe what you want but that doesn't mean that such a belief is something I consider to be extremely naive and infinitely dangerous to all of us.

But as dangerous to Humanity such thinking is...THIS takes the cake...""When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it. For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight. Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life."---Romans 2:12-16 NLT

When I read things like this I start thinking about becoming an Atheist!!!

AboveAlpha

 

One extremely disturbing issue I have with this whole Christianity thingy, is simply that the followers basically tell everyone else to "Go to hell". I find Islam and Christianity to be quite similar in this mindset...with the primary difference being that Islam actually sends you there physically whenever it can.

 

You know I don't think we should judge all Christian's or Muslim's or Jews based upon the craziness coming from a few of them.

Basically on the whole the vast majority of all such Religious People are fairly moderate and that even includes Muslims.

It's just that the crazy ones are the ones that are most vocal....thus we who are moderate must endure such idiocy.

AboveAlpha

 

I agree....but, my comment was less about the violence than the message inherent in the Religion. I do not much like to be told I am wrong by people that play with imaginary friends. Let alone being told I am going to this imaginary fiends imaginary torture chamber because I cannot see the giant invisible rabbit.

 

Yeah...such people are VERY vocal about telling others what they should believe and do....but if another person even SUGGESTS an alternative possibility they are GOING TO HELL!!! LOL!!!

Church Lady...."Sooooo....just who taught you about all that science and mathematics and told you that Human's are Apes? Was it SATAN!!???

Isn't that special?

AboveAlpha

 

...............
[video=youtube;EYa_ChYf4rw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYa_ChYf4rw[/video]

 

I meet many Older Christians who have 'chosen' to keep to their early faith but 'choice' has not been 'free will'. It has been a choice influenced by their upbringing. The ability to make a choice is the ability to put together the why's and wherefore's based on experience, so if you think 'free will' is making a 'choice' I leave it with you.