Part 31 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity>>MOD WARNING<<

?????? As an agnostic I don't know whether a god exists or not. So what do I have faith in? Is it logical to have faith in something you don't believe is true?

 

Agnosticism has nothing to do with belief.

 

That's not true. Agnostics believe that one cannot know whether God exists or not.

 

False. Agnosticism is simply the acknowledgement that one does not claim to have knowledge of whether god exists or not. It says nothing about whether one could know that.

 

Have you presented any evidence that Steve and Bill do not support global flooding?
Bill and Steve's opinion and statements are widely published and made available I am not sure why their fellow atheist would lie about Steve and Bill's support for global flooding? You must remember, Bill and Steve are not expert geologist, climatologist or theologians in some ways they could be lying.

 

In other words they are not sure but they claim to be certain there is no God? If they are not sure then why claim there is no God? Being not sure and pretend to be sure is worse than atheist at least atheist we know mean one who do not believe in God.

 

No. But it does with faith. Can I have faith in something that might or might not be true.

 

An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. dictionary.reference.com/browse/agnostic

dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/agnostic6 days ago - agnostic meaning, definition, what is agnostic: someone who does not know, or believes that it is impossible to know, if a god exists: .

It's simply a matter of dictionary definitions - therefore the opinion of different groups of people.

 

You really are too ignorant to be participating in any of these threads.

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Yes. That's the entire point of faith.

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Those definitions are based on common usage and not etymology and thus are not accurate.

 

But then what is accurate. I think the term agnostic, in terms of god, didn't come into existence until a very few centuries ago. The Greek had no specific reference to religion as far as I know. Not related to a-gnosticism (anti gnosticism which was prevalent then). Many words and phrases used today have 'modern' meanings. Much of the Bible is understood by Christians in modern terms, and not in the terms in which it was written so many centuries ago. If you were to read it in those terms you would read a completely different book.

Keirkegaard, Christian theologian, believed that one could not know certainty of God's existence without a 'leap of faith'

Huxley, comparing his ideas with philosophy and religious creeds of his time says 'The one thing in which most of these good people were agreed was the one thing in which I differed from them. They were quite sure they had attained a certain "gnosis,"&#8211;had, more or less successfully, solved the problem of existence; while I was quite sure I had not, and had a pretty strong conviction that the problem was insoluble.
Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle. Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect, do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable.

Agnosticism - though not the term - can be seen in ancient philisophers writings.

Still this is diverting from the theme of the Forum and I've already been accused of that before. Enough said.



Those definitions are based on common usage and not etymology and thus are not accurate.[/QUOTE]

 

Thanks to our participation truth has been shared and false claims, fictions and lies about wild claims that no such thing as global flooding, that humans are apes and apes are humans, that there exist no Jesus Christ, that cannibalism is not real , that agnostic who are not sure about God and yet they claim there is no God etc. has all been refuted to be false and their failures are due to their lack of understanding and accepting history, facts and real science. Their ignorance how deep and extreme it maybe has all been exposed as such that in the end truth matters that is why they can not provide any factual evidence that atheist scientist such as Steven Hawking or Bill Nye become great scientist from attending atheist universities.

 

Why do you keep deliberately and provably lying about what people have said?

 

WarRen knows no other way.

 

You mean they are not lying about Christian, world history and science?

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That is why I am here that is why we are here to make sure that those lies are refuted with truth.

 

So it's a belief system. Previously you said agnosticism has nothing to do with belief but it has something to do with belief, your own statement directly above makes the point. So obviously you have contradicted yourself. On one hand you state agnosticism has nothing to do with belief then on the other hand you make a statement that clearly states their belief.

Their belief system is that "one cannot make a claim to have knowledge of whether God exists or not"....in a nutshell that's their belief.

Theists and atheists don't agree with the belief system of agnostics, that's why we have the 3 distinctly different belief systems.

Can I have an acknowledgment that you were wrong in saying, "agnoticism has nothing to do with belief" Perhaps you should have worded it differently.

 

the bible says:
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.

Out of 1 billion Christians on earth, how come not one will actually let the other guy have his coat.

 

It requires no belief to acknowledge fact.

Agnosticism is not a belief system. It has nothing to do with belief. It has to do with claims of knowledge about the existence of God and it is not mutually exclusive with atheism or theism.

For instance, I am an Agnostic Atheist: I do not believe in a god and I don't know whether one exists or not.

 

Sorry but you're wrong.

Agnosticism is a doctrine or set of tenets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

Doctrine: (from Latin: doctrina or possibly from Sanskrit: dukrn) is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or belief system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine

Tenet: An opinion, belief, or principle held to be true by someone or especially an organization.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tenet

Conclusion: Agnosticism is a belief system.

 

From the person who created the term agnosticism in relation to religion.
' Agnosticism, in fact, is not a creed, but a method, the essence of which lies in the rigorous application of a single principle ... Positively the principle may be expressed: In matters of the intellect, follow your reason as far as it will take you, without regard to any other consideration. And negatively: In matters of the intellect do not pretend that conclusions are certain which are not demonstrated or demonstrable'.[12][13]
&#8212;Thomas Henry Huxley
I ... invented what I conceived to be the appropriate title of 'agnostic,' ... antithetic to the 'Gnostic' of Church history who professed to know so much about the very things of which I was ignorant. [T.H. Huxley, "Science and Christian Tradition," 1889]

The adjective is first recorded 1870.

The original Greek was simply means 'unknown/unknowable' - not specifically religion.

 

Again, definitions based on common usage and not etymology.

 

If you don't know whether God exist or not then how can you be sure of what you claim God exist or not? If you are not sure does this mean your opinion should not be taken seriously?

 

I don't make any claims about whether or not God exists. I don't know. However, until presented with empirical verifiable evidence, I will not believe in one.

 

Since you don't know if God exist or not how can you claim that you do not believe in one? Because by saying that you do not believe in God you are confirming there is no God when in actuality you don't real know.
And this is where the conflict and contradictions comes in it contradicts history, science and facts. You seem to have more problem with having a God than not. You tend to lean towards atheism than to theist.
How can an agnostic successfully debate about no God or yes God?

 

Because I know what I do and do not believe. I don't believe in any gods. I do not claim or believe there is no God because that would be illogical. I have no evidence supporting such a belief.

 

Jesus, at least indirectly, taught hatred, as the MAJORITY of our fellow humans (the 2.1 billion Christians are a minority of the 7+ billion people on earth) are apparently so vile that they actually deserve eternal torture. You of course have to be quite vile to deserve eternal torture! THAT'S how bad the majority of humans are - to a Christian! So if most people are vile, then why give a damn about most people? So they don't.

But Modern Secular Humanist don't believe that most people deserve eternal torture - far from it - so Modern Secular Humanists have the potential to be far more loving towards each other than Christians do, as a general rule. Too bad Jesus won't clarify this for us....so he's either not real, or not very moral.