Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on some of this.

    But in the last sentences, let's remember that those who hold to Jesus and reject Judaism are Christians - like you. They agree that Judaism provided a way to heaven for a while. But, now that is gone - leaving Judaism empty.

    The Abrahamic religions can not be united until they resolve the most significant issues between Abrahamic faiths - who is Jesus and how does one avoid hell.

    As you quoted: "Jesus asked his remaining Disciples if they would leave too, Peter responded, "To whom shall we go. Thou hast the words of eternal life."

    Peter was a Christian - a follower of Christ. He KNEW Judaism was dead. That's what Jesus preached.
     
  2. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    There were no Christians or Christianity in the Bible. The term Christian only appeared two or three times in the Bible in a derisive sense. Jesus was not a Christian. He was the Jewish Messiah. And his Jewish followers followed the Jewish Messiah, Jesus. Judaism lived in Jesus Christ, and he in it. Jesus said the Father is in me and I in him, and we are one. Such is Judaism and the mission of Jesus Christ. Even though you become an emancipated adult, you are still the child of your Parents to whom you bend your knee and bring them honor.
     
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  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    True about the name. But, that's not the issue.

    Peter was a follower of what today is Christianity, NOT Judaism.

    Judaism was noted by Peter to be dead as you pointed out.

    Judaism does NOT accept your view of Jesus as being the fulfillment of prophecy, a define being, an intercessor, or even holy. They believe that Jesus could not possibly be the messiah, as there were a number of specific events that will take place before the coming of the messiah.

    I don't understand your disagreement, as you don't get to say what Judaism is. You have to ask them. And, they will tell you.
     
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  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A reasonable analysis..
    Peter was a follower of a new Religion .. but one that was alot closer to Judaism than Christianity is today .. and nor would I liken the religion of Peter to Christianity as Peter was definitly not a follower of what today is Christianity--- no belief in the Trinity being the first of a Plethora of things .. the religion of Peter would not be like any recognizable Christian denomination that I am aware of. Peter didn't think Jesus was a God ... and what ever divinity resided in Christ .. the God spark if you will .. was 100% Subordinate to "The Father" .. a completely separate individual to whome Jesus was not Equal .. at all .. Jesus was a living Prophet ... and a wonder worker .. had some mystical skills .. but he was not the Ordained one of Prophecy .. not the annointed one on whose shoulders former glory woud be returned. Got the wrong guy .. is what Peter would tell you .. Jesus comes from a different tradition .. that of the suffering servant .. and sage .. one adopted by God .. at his baptism .. not at his Birth .. there is no Virgin Birth in the first telling of the story.

    The religion Peter followed .. we are still trying to figure out but while we may not know enough to know exactly what his beliefs were .. we know enough to know what they were not .. and his beliefs were nothing like modern day Christianity ..
     
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Jesus invalidated Judaism as a method of attaining heaven.

    When the apostle was asked by Jesus whether he would continue following Jesus, the response was one of pointing out there was no other choice.

    From that starting point, I agree that Christianity has changed in major ways - but not in the central issue. In fact today people ignore that a REQUIREMENT of salvation includes walking the walk once "saved". This requirement comes from more than one place, but is clearly stated by Jesus as recorded by Matthew in Matthew 25:31 to end. Those failing to walk the walk are headed for hell along with Satan.

    Close works in horse shoes and hand grenades, as the saying goes.
     
  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Very good post, thanks for your contribution!
     
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  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    What does that mean for God's chosen people who continue to follow Judaism?
     
  8. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    The Jews are God’s chosen people, but that does not automatically make all Jews saved.

    We Read in Scripture:

    6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. 7 If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. [c] From now on, you do know him and have seen him!” John 14:6-7 NLT

    Footnote
    c. 14:7 Some manuscripts read If you have really known me, you will know who my Father is.

    That "no one" includes Jews and Gentiles. So, for a Jew to be saved, he/she must come to God the Father through faith in Jesus the Messiah.

    There is "no distinction" between Jew and Gentile in Christ.

    We Read in Scripture:

    12 Jew and Gentile[a] are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him. Romans 10:12 NLT

    Footnote
    a. 10:12 Greek and Greek.

    Yes, the Jews are God’s chosen people, and through them came the Jewish Messiah to bless all the nations of the earth. But it is only through the Lord Jesus that Jews...or anyone else...can find God’s forgiveness.

    Thanks WRm for your post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2023
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  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I know Christianity pretty well. You don't have to explain the fundamentals of your belief.

    I think you are supporting my view that Jesus came to Earth and invalidated the religion of God's chosen people.

    This isn't an attack, nor do I plan to make some big deal out of this.

    I do prefer a general direction of growing mutual respect and inclusion between the Abrahamic faiths.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2023
  10. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No, they invalidated the religion when they rejected Lord Jesus who came into the world as the Jewish Messiah.
     
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  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and Judaism views that Christians created a false sect by suggesting that Jesus is the Messiah their religion foretells.

    I know you believe you are right and they are wrong. You believe Jesus came to Earth and invalidated Judaism.

    There is a constant assumption made by those of pretty much every religion and its various divisions that they are right and all others are wrong.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2023
  12. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good morning brother Mitt. I just love the scripture you quoted . May the Lord continue blessings.
     
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  13. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    If my parents turned out to be mass murdering psychopaths I would be under no obligation to "bend my knee" to them or to "honor" them.

    Now I don't believe that your god exists...but even if he did, he is a mass murdering psychopath undeserving of any "honor" or loyalty.
     
  15. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No I think you are referring to Satan the deceiver, and he's obviously your god
     
  16. Nwolfe35

    Nwolfe35 Well-Known Member

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    So it was "Satan" that killed the world population in the flood?
    It was "Satan" that killed every first born male in Egypt to get the Pharaoh to release the Jews?
    It was "Satan" that order Joshua to kill every man, woman and child in Jericho?

    Yeah, according to your own Bible your God is the worst mass murderer in human history.
     
  17. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    Why is this your view? Where in scripture is Jesus invalidating Judaism? The essence of Judaism is OT mosaic law and Jesus is quoted saying:
    17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [fn]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches [fn]others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [fn]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. - Matt 5:17-19
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2023
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  18. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1Timothy 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,


    Hosea 4:6 - My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    Sin it was that killed those people.
    Could God save them? This aint 'Nam,.... there are rules,.... they have to ask for counsel... Think of a court room with God as the judge, Jesus as the Defense attorney and Satan (which translates as "the advocate" as prosecuting mankind.
     
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  19. ToddWB

    ToddWB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Numbers 25:4-5. The Lord said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of the people and execute them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that the fierce anger of the Lord may turn away from Israel.". So Moses said to the judges of Israel, "Each of you slay his men who have joined themselves to Baal of Peor.".
     
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  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I think Protestants (at least, and mentioned for clarity) believe that man is sinful and must accept Jesus, who may cleanse them and grand everlasting life.

    Judaism doesn't have similar original sin beliefs, doesn't accept Jesus as more than a human, doesn't accept the sacrifice of Jesus as propitiation for human sin. The path to heaven in Judaism lies elsewhere, as it did throughout the history of Judaism.

    The "New Covenant" is a change that invalidated the previous covenant. According to those who accept the NT claims made by Jesus, Judaism is no longer adequate for reaching heaven.

    (This is all stated in the positive, only to make it easier to identify mistakes and clarify the issue of the status of Judaism today, from the Christian point of view.)
     
  21. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well, the Bible says each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment.

    We Read in Scripture:

    27 And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, Hebrews 9:27 NLT

    And so the saved will be in the presence of the Lord while the unsaved will be separated from the Lord for all eternity to come after this judgment is made which is based on every individual's choice they made prior to their physical deaths. And so if you were a believer that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior you will be saved, if you were not a believer that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior you will not be saved.

    Obviously you're not understanding the sacrifice our Lord Savior Jesus Christ made on the cross and so you to ask such a question.

    Only He our Lord Savior Jesus Christ could make such a sacrifice that no other human being could do. So let me present an article below from my favorite Christian Ministry, they answer the question, "What does the Bible say about death?" then perhaps it will enlighten you to understand this sacrifice that only Lord Jesus could do that no other human being could do.

    The Bible presents death as separation: physical death is the separation of the soul from the body, and spiritual death is the separation of the soul from God.

    Death is the result of sin. “For the wages of sin is death,” Romans 6:23a. The whole world is subject to death, because all have sinned. “By one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Romans 5:12). In Genesis 2:17, the Lord warned Adam that the penalty for disobedience would be death—“you will surely die.” When Adam disobeyed, he experienced immediate spiritual death, which caused him to hide “from Lord God among the trees of the garden” [Genesis 3:8]. Later, Adam experienced physical death (Genesis 5:5).

    On the cross, Jesus also experienced physical death (Matthew 27:50). The difference is that Adam died because he was a sinner, and Jesus, who had never sinned, chose to die as a substitute for sinners (Hebrews 2:9). Jesus then showed His power over death and sin by rising from the dead on the third day [Matthew 28; Revelation 1:18]. Because of Christ, death is a defeated foe. “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:55; Hosea 13:14).

    For the unsaved, death brings to an end the chance to accept God’s gracious offer of salvation. “It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27). For the saved, death ushers us into the presence of Christ: “To be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23). So real is the promise of the believer’s resurrection that the physical death of a Christian is called “sleep” (1 Corinthians 15:51; 1 Thessalonians 5:10). We look forward to that time when “there shall be no more death” (Revelation 21:4).

    https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-death.html

    Ok thanks Gawd for your post, I hope my response has enlightened you, eternity is such a very long time to be wrong in your belief system. Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and be saved to spend eternity with others who are saved and be with the Lord in His Kingdom of Heaven and live happily ever after!
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2023
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  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe you answered the question.

    The question was about a choice to be made by an individual, not about the meaning of death in some particular religion.
     
  23. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    The question is actually nonsensical it's ludicrous and so instead of answering the way I did, I should of answered it this way:

    "Obviously you're not understanding the sacrifice our Lord Savior Jesus Christ made on the cross and so you to ask such a nonsensical ludicrous question."

    Because it all stems from Gawd's inability to understand what it means when the Lord Jesus Christ died and sacrificed His life to save others. If you go back and read the dialogue between Gawd and WanRen it was regarding Lord Savior Jesus Christ sacrifice He made on the cross to save mankind from its sins in which Gawd is unable to understand the concept of and so he ask this nonsensical ludicrous question of his.

    Thanks will for your post. I hope my response has cleared your misunderstanding of my response to Gawd.
     
  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    "Would you be willing to die for your son?" is not a ludicrous question.
     
  25. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    What killed all things on earth but ark inhabitants?
    Not Satan.
     
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