Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Birth and death aren't the beginning and end of life. They are a passage of our spirits into and out of mortality. It is as natural to me to believe that those who have lived and passed on, reside in spirit elsewhere, as it is to breathe. I can't even conceive that the spirits of my loved ones are snuffed out and canceled at death as if they never lived. It's an absurd concept along the lines of saying that a faucet makes water. To say there is no God is to say there is no right or wrong. If there is no right or wrong, there would be no science, no laws, no justice or injustice, and no civilization. Life would be chaos. We see that mentality play out during riots. Goodness isn't diminished by evil, but made all the more valuable or divine. Likewise our spirits, by putting off corruption at death.
     
  2. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    So where do the spirits live before you are born, and where do they live after you kick the bucket?
     
  3. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More Mormon teaching. The bold is simply nonsense. Right and wrong do not depend on a god. Neither do the rest. The fact you can't concieve of your loved ones being 'snuffed out' is just your inability to accept reality. Most religions need an 'afterlife' to offer their adherents and those 'afterlives' vary considerably - often according to culture.
    You've neglected to answer my question about various types of people. What about those children who will never be able to understand all your convoluted beliefs or the millions who have just one aim in their desperate lives - to survive. Your world is one of privilege. While all your donations, along with many other organisations. are welcome to help poverty stricken countries, people are not concerned with dying but living.
     
  4. Mitty

    Mitty Newly Registered

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    And even if you don't believe and kowtow and tithe to preacher men selling after-death salvation with money-back guarantees, you'll still be saved (1Tim 4:9-11) and baptized after death (1Cor 15:29).
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2024
  5. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    One must still accept and practice the rest of the gospel.
     
  6. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you believe anything you say. I think you're just throwing up an argument and playing devils advocate so to speak. I know that God lives because his spirit has awakened me to a remembrance of him. Consequently, I know that everyone knows his spirit but has forgotten him, just as I did. I know that we are dual in nature, (spirit and creature). And I know we are obligated to maintain both. Most people, to one degree or another, do that naturally. In that duality, justice and understanding are conceived naturally and raised within us such that that is our becoming. So our lives are more than to fill our bellies and die like creatures. It is to enlarge us. That is the goal of God from whom we spring, to make us like him as a share in his inheritance. He is our Father who loves us and wants us to have his experience forever. Because he is eternal, then we are eternal in spirit as the offspring of the eternal God. We take upon us flesh, just as Jesus did. And we are obligated to God the Father just as was Jesus. The difference of course is that Jesus Christ maintained that association in full, while we have not. Like Isaiah said, "All we like sheep have gone astray. We have turned everyone to his own way. And the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
     
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  7. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe everything I say.

    Isaiah Is written for the Jews and the quote is about Israel, the servant'. You simply take what you are taught without understanding the scriptures written long before Jesus the Jewish preacher. And what about the children without understanding now and in their adulthood.
     
  8. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    God chose Israel to use as an example to mankind. One meaning of the word "Israel" is "To let God prevail". So anyone in whose heart it is to let God prevail, is where Israel is planted.
     
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  9. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I don't know.
     
  10. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    he origin of the name Israel is a Biblical verse, referring to Jacob: “Your name is Israel, because you struggled with G‑d and with man, and prevailed.

    Gen. 32:29. “And he said, ‘Your name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel; for as a prince you have power with God and with men, and have prevailed.'”
     
  11. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    There are several meanings, yes. One is to let God prevail. It is all about God. And there is only one true God.
     
  12. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would suggest the meaning is quite clear from the passage of scripture.
     
  13. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Biblical scripture isn't the source for all truth. I think that " To let God prevail" comes from a Hebrew dictionary as one meaning of the word Israel. It's not a far cry to see prevailing with God over ones enemies as to "let God prevail." Also to trust in God is to let God prevail. To obey his prophet is to allow God to prevail. And faith in God in battle is to lay the victory at the feet of God. In considering that if God is real, there can only be one true God. And if that God is the God of the Jews, then he is also the God of all mankind, not confined to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
     
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  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Holy Decepticon Pot calling kettle black Robin ! Brother Mitt .. why do you go around claiming you have proven Trevor a Liar when you have done no such thing .. which makes you a projector of your failings on to others.

    Trevor told you the flood did not happen .. above you agree that it likely did not happen .. which confirms that Trevor spoke the Truth .. yet you go running around falsely claiming that you have "Proven" the flood happened .. thus proving Trevor is a Liar. .. when even by your own analysis .. the Flood did not happen .. so you have not proven that the Global Flood happened .. your claim that you have proven Trevor is lying .. false nonsense on steroids.

    Mitt - why do you follow the snake charmers .. filling your head with falsehoods .. while running from Jesus .. the Truth .. the Way and the Light.

    and there is all kinds of definitive proof that the Global Flood did not happen 2100 BC-2300 BC .. Continuous culture all over the world and land species existing all over the world .. and humans existing all over the world during this time period.

    Think about it Mitt .. the fellow recording the Global Flood in Australia would be killed by that flood .. would the flood have been global in stead of Local. The fact that there is a story about a Flood from Australian Natives tells you there was no Global Flood .. along with the fact that Kangaroos live there .. and the spectacled Bear in South America.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2024
  15. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Mitt never actually answers anything I give him. He simply skips the subject while calling me out. He has done this to others. Even the Bible says the flood as described did not happen. The hydrological cycle mentioned in Job and other places shows this. Ecclesiastes 1:7 particularly. - though I doubt Mitt will understand the second part of the verse. Ecclesiastes. My favourite book for the wisdom found in it.
    You will realise that I'm an atheist who has studied the B ible against ancient history for many years. I am quite sure that Jesus existed - but as a Jewish preacher - nothing more.
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes .. I know well the feeling Brother T .. the complete inability to even address .. never mind answer tough questions regarding Christianity while leading the innocent sheep astray from the Truth .. the way .. ands the light .. communicated to man .. from the creator .. through the Logos .. and that Logos was not named Paul.

    You are no atheist Brother T --- just a fellow seeker .. somewhat like me :)

    Oh what is this Blasphemy .. putting words in the mouth of the most High God of Jesus .. a God who you do not know .. and do not follow Brother Mitt. What spirit has come over you .. such that you yearn to commit the unforgivable sin ?

    Tell us which God you follow Mitt select the path of this God who you claim is the author of all 1) Kill the child for the sin of the Idolatrous parents .. or 2) Do not kill the child for the sin of the Parents .. let each be punished for his own sin.

    Give us the name of this God who Authored the Bible Mitt -- and tell us which path we are to follow .. as commanded by this God whom you claim Authored the entire Bible ?

    Where hence does this forked tongue come from Brother Mitt .. I sense the snake charmers are near and dear .. Let us have the answer from your God Mitt .. and do speak up clear .. and tells us what the God that authored the Bible says we do with the babies of Idolatrous parents .. is it (1) .. or is it (2) :)
     
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  17. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Why do you keep asking "which God", "name of the God", "who is the God" I follow?"

    You must be suffering from memory loss or something for I've told you over and over. And I know I have given you a suggestion that you should keep notes as we merrily go along that way you won't ask the same questions over and over.

    You should know by now we Christians worship only one God, who is the only one true God for there is no other like Him for He alone is God. He is the author of the entire Christian Holy Bible which consists of the OT (Old Testament) as well as the NT (New Testament).

    The Christian Holy Bible makes it perfectly clear, there is only one God.

    We Read in Scripture:

    9 Remember the things I have done in the past. For I alone am God! I am God, and there is none like me. 10 Only I can tell you the future before it even happens. Everything I plan will come to pass, for I do whatever I wish. Isaiah 46:9-10 NLT

    35 “He showed you these things so you would know that the Lord is God and there is no other. Deuteronomy 4:35 NLT

    4 “Listen, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord alone.[a] Deuteronomy 6:4 NLT

    Footnotes
    a. 6:4 Or The Lord our God is one Lord; or The Lord our God, the Lord is one; or The Lord is our God, the Lord is one.

    A Call to Faithfulness

    10 Are we not all children of the same Father? Are we not all created by the same God? Then why do we betray each other, violating the covenant of our ancestors? Malachi 2:10 NLT

    6 But for us,
    There is one God, the Father,
    by whom all things were created,
    and for whom we live.
    And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    through whom all things were created,
    and through whom we live. 1 Corinthians 8:6 NLT

    6 one God and Father of all,
    who is over all, in all, and living through all. Ephesians 4:6 NLT

    5 For,
    There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.1Timothy 2:5 NLT

    19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God.[a] Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. James 2:19 NLT

    Footnotes
    a. 2:19 Some manuscripts read that God is one; see Deut 6:4.

    Let me refer back to the past as recent as April 30 of this year where you've asked "who....?" and I responded by telling you who is the God I worship/follow.

    Your 1st statement, "Kill the child for the sin of the idolatrous parents." is referring to verse 5 of Chapter 20 in the Book of Exodus and it's your interpretation of that verse which btw is an incorrect interpretation, IOW a misinterpretation.

    Essentially your interpretation of that verse is that God commanded that the children of idolatrous parents be killed...whoa!...what a grossly mistaken interpretation...sheesh! I've said it numerous of times before, the Holy Bible is not a book for the interpretation impaired...hello gift edone!

    And your 2nd statement, "Do not kill the child for the sin of the Parents .. let each be punished for his own sin." is referring to verse 20 of Chapter 18 in the Book of Ezekiel and it's your interpretation of that verse which is a correct interpretation.

    So let me now present those two verses from Scripture that your statements or maybe I should say your interpretations are derived from.

    We Read in Scripture:

    5 You must not bow down to them or worship them, for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God who will not tolerate your affection for any other gods. I lay the sins of the parents upon their children; the entire family is affected—even children in the third and fourth generations of those who reject me. Exodus 20:5 NLT

    20 The person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parent’s sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child’s sins. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness. Ezekiel 18:20 NLT

    First off let's be perfectly clear, children are not punished for the sins committed by their parents, and neither are parents punished for the sins of their children.

    IOW we are all responsible for our own sins as illustrated in Ezekiel 18:20.

    Now below I'm going to defer over to my favorite Christian Ministry, and they will give a thorough in-depth explanation regarding Exodus 20:5 and give the correct interpretation of that verse.

    Ok thanks gift edone for your post, I hope you clearly see now your misinterpretation of verse 5 in Exodus chapter 20 as gross as it was and that there is only one true God in the Christian religion who is the author of the entire Christian Holy Bible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2024
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Jewish Bible talks about many Gods and thus once again you speak with forked tongue. You have not told us the name of the God of Jesus .. nor acknowledged this God as the God you follow


    "Kill the child for the sin of the Idolatrous parents is not referring to Exodus 5:20. How is it you do not know the command of your God Mitt .. nor the name of the God who gives that command.


    Once again .. which command is from the God you worship .. and what is the name of this God.

    1) Kill the child for the sin of the idolatrous parents
    2) Do not kill the child for the sin of the parents - Each is to be punished for his own sin.

    not complicated Mitt .. how are you to be put right with your God if you have no idea what the commands of that God are ?
     
  19. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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  20. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You should know by now we Christians worship only one God, who is the only one true God for there is no other like Him for He alone is God. He is the author of the entire Christian Holy Bible which consists of the OT (Old Testament) as well as the NT (New Testament).


    The TANAKH WAS WRITTEN BY THEJEWS WHO WORSHIPPED JAHWEH. So we have two gods writing the Bible. Your quotes from the OT are refering to Yahweh despite what you think. Your reference in Malachi clearly states this.

    IOW we are all responsible for our own sins as illustrated in Ezekiel 18:20. This has been the Jewish belief all along. Thus we have the Days of Awe and Yom Kippur. Christianity cannot accept they need to seek forgiveness.It's too much trouble. Lay the blame on someone else.

    As Ezekiel 18:20 shows, each of us is responsible for our own sins, and we must bear the punishment for them. We cannot share our guilt with another, nor can another be held responsible for our transgressions. There is, however, one exception to this rule, and it applies to all mankind. One man bore the sins of others and paid the penalty for them so sinners could become completely righteous and pure in the sight of God. That man is Jesus Christ, who came into the world to exchange His perfection for our sin. “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus was punished for us.

    Always some exception in Christianity.

    Another longwinded post in which Mitt needs to use GotQuestions.
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is not a "Tough Question" Mitt -- surely you can manage a non deceitful answer nor deflect once again.

    which command is from the God you worship .. and what is the name of this God.

    1) Kill the child for the sin of the idolatrous parents
    2) Do not kill the child for the sin of the parents - Each is to be punished for his own sin.

    Then tell us which is the command that Jesus would follow .. and why do you laugh at the commands of Lord Jesus .. giggling as one of the scared minions of the the devil ..

    For as we read in Scripture --- "44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do"

    Which message is from your Father Mitt A) Kill the child B) Do not Kill the Child ?

    Who is Your Father Mitt ? A) or B)
     
  22. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    It would help to know what you are talking about. Yes we are all accountable for our own sins. But wicked Parents, by word and example, can point their children to destruction. Thus the child in a sense bears the punishment for the Parents sins by repeating them. This is an eternal principle. I think that as Mitt said, you may be misunderstanding the scriptures.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2024
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  23. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The child bears the punishment for its own sins. It has the choice which way it goes. It is not repsonsible for its parents sins. As per the so-called 'Original sin'. .
     
  24. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I agree. We are all born with our own duty to the ideal or to God. But it's the Parents duty to suit the child against the worlds temptations, and to reinforce the childs first duty. To not do so, and by word and example encourage sinful behavior, tends to eclipse the childs virtue or first duty and essentially give the child excuse to go that way. So even though we might tell ourselves it's okay to violate that ideal. It isn't okay. That's the sin. In the case of wicked Parents, it is also the Parents sin. The consequences of which are visited on the child. If you steal rather than to work, and teach your child to do the same. And if the child goes to prison for stealing, then the child is punished for repeating the Parents sin. The only original sin I'm aware of is mortality. But that's not a sin. It's a condition.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2024
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  25. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    First of all we still don't know one way or another if there is life or no life elsewhere in this humongous universe that our Creator Almighty God created. He may have designed it in such a way that only life on earth could exist or perhaps designed it in such a way that in numerous places throughout the universe there are other life forms that exist but the bottom line as it is right now we just don't know one way or another.

    But needless to say the fact that we have life here on earth points to a designer who "fined tuned" His creation to support life here on earth.

    We learn from reading Scripture that everything that God has made, has been created for His glory.

    We Read in Scripture:

    For the choir director: A psalm of David.


    1 The heavens proclaim the glory of God.
    The skies display his craftsmanship. Psalm 19:1 NLT

    Now I would like to present a video from my favorite Christian Ministry, they answer the question, "Why did God create such a vast universe and other planets if there is only life on Earth?"



    Sorry but you're mistaken, the Bible does not describe geocentricism. IOW the Bible does not state that our Creator Almighty God designed the universe with Earth at its center. The myth here is you falsesly believing that the Bible describes a geocentric universe. That's what happens when people like you misinterpret certain passages/verses in Scripture.

    Ok thanks JET for your post, I hope you and others enjoyed the video furnished by my favorite Christian Ministry.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2024
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