Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Do you believe everything you say are indisputable because they are without any doubts factual? Like when an atheist such as you say, "God doesn't exist." are you telling us that statement is indisputable because without any doubts it's factual?

Speaking about not understanding something, what you don't seem to understand is that the OT lays the foundation for the teachings and events found in the NT. If you skip the first half of any good book and try to finish it, you will have a hard time understanding the characters, the plot, and the ending.

In the same way, the NT is only completely understood when we see its foundation of the events, characters, laws, sacrificial system, covenants, and promises of the OT.

And so the Holy Bible is a progressive revelation given to us from our Creator Almighty God.

Ok thanks trev for your post.

 

We don't know that. All we have is 'tradition'. The are about 8 different places and ways in which Matthew died for instance. Similar with others. We really don't know about most of them.

 

You don't seem to understand anything. The NT is based on the false assumption that Jesus was divine and foretold in the OT. He wasn't and is not. You've never answered my posts about the misuse of OT scripture to make Jesus divine..

You criticise me but never answer my posts. It's like talking to someone on a oneway syste.

 

Shroud of Turin is proof He is divine (and that He lives)

 

I've been told lots of things throughout my life but I don't necessarily believe everything I've been told. For example I've been told by atheists that God doesn't exist but I don't believe that because I believe that God does exist.

You might be curious and ask me why do I believe God exist? Well there are many reasons. But on Feb 23, 2013 this is what I was quoted saying when I was asked by another member "What brought me to believe?"

In the New American Standard Bible, The Open Bible Edition on pg. 1295 they have a question and answer segment. One of the questions posed was, "How can I know there is a God?" and the answer is: There are three sources of material. First, there is the Bible. Second, there is nature. Third, there is man. These point to the Creator. None are possible by happenstance. None could have been produced by accident.

We Read in Scripture:

19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Romans 1:19-20 NLT

And so no trev, I wasn't indoctrinated by anyone and I freely after thinking for myself began to believe in our Creator Almighty God. And so you can't just lump everyone into the same basket trev by saying we've all been indoctrinated and are not thinking for ourselves...no siree bubba!

Ok thanks trev for your post.

 

It's fine with me if you wish to align with the "tradition" of unbelief. But I personally know by the visitation of Gods spirit that it is perfectly feasible for Paul to have known him without having met him. And the fact that he continued to teach his gospel unto death is further evidence of the veracity of his conversion. Do you have evidence of Jesus or his Apostles recanting their testimonies? Your calling their words make believe isn't their confession. You can't put words in their mouths of things never spoken by them, and call it the truth, when it is reactionary in parallel with the record.

 

There is NO PROOF that the shroud is anything but a shroud except in the minds of those desparate to believe it. There are simply differing opinions. Try thishttps://www.history.com/news/shroud-turin-forensic-study-not-jesus-burial-cloth.

You see, despite your protestations there is NO proof - just opinion.

 

Tradition is not fact. We do not know the deaths of most of the apostles/disciples. As I pointed out with Matthew's example. Tradition.and film directors place Spartacus on a cross. The truth is his body was never found. He may have escaped and lived for years. Noone knows. As with manyn of the apostles.

 

It is also proof that your ilk will never accept the evidence, even the scientific evidence... Furthermore, honest scientist admit to the likelyhood of a designer of creation.. because.. you know.. statistic show the evolution of life to be so statically improbable that it is absurd

 

So why is a piece of cloth proof that he's divine and that he's still alive? And if he's still alive, where does he live, and does he still go fishing?

 

But have you ever seen a god, since we read in Genesis 18 that Abraham shared a non-kosher meal with a god and had a face to face discussion about the number of righteous children in S&G before the god walked down to count them for himself since he was neither an omniscient or omnipresent type of god?

 

Biological evolution, however, is the reason why there are six distinct biogeographical zones with unique ranges of flora and fauna, and why kangaroos and sloths are not native to Africa.

And humans share over 95% of their DNA with chimps, including the same dysfunctional gene for Vitamin C synthesis which they inherited from a common ancestor. Which is why humans can breed with chimps, in the same way that hinnies evolved from horses and donkeys, and ligers evolved from lions and tigers, and triticale evolved from wheat and rye.

 

That only proves that the shroud is a piece of cloth and not a piece of plastic.

So where do they live, and have you ever seen them?
John 21, however, says that he went fishing with his mates after he was resuscitated by Joseph and Nicodemus (John 19:38-42), who presumably gave him some clothes to wear when he went fishing.

 

In that vain, Jesus and his Apostles all lived, they all bared their testimony, and they all suffered to one degree or another and perished without recanting or denying their testimony. A roman senator and historian of the time wrote that Jesus was put to death by Pilate. That isn't tradition. And the roman senator was not a Christian. It is history and is as real as real can be. So it stands to reason that if Jesus was put to death for teaching his Fathers gospel of repentance, then his Apostles faced a similar eventuality for teaching the same gospel. If a tree is logged for its unique lumber, then surely others like it will be similarly prized. It is likewise for the cause of extermination.

 

But where does the bible say that he was executed for "teaching his Fathers gospel of repentance"? The gospels, however, say that he was executed by the Romans to avoid another potential Jewish uprising (John 11:49-51) and thousands of Jews subsequently crucified, as occurred when Jesus was born and three decades after he was executed. Which is why the Romans mocked him as the King of the Jews.

 

And so why does the bible have so many inconsistencies and contradictions and scientific untruths?

 

while the climate of rebellion can not be ruled out as one of the factors ..it is a small one. Going around claiming to be God on the other hand .. a very big factor .. one related to the crucifixion of many Christians over the next 100 years.

The Romans were perfectly fine with people worshiping what ever Gods they wished .. what they were not fine with was usurping the position of Caesar head of the State Religious Cult and "Pontifex Maximus" the one who speaks "Gods Word"

Later on the Romans Got more strict and forced everyone to make some kind of acknowledgement of the state cult .. and if they would not .. XXX

 

Paul is an interesting character -- didn't know Jesus .. but had voices in his head speak to him that he attributed to Jesus. Paul letters of admonishment and encouragement to the various churches may contain some inspiration to some .. but much of these letters is "Uninspired" .. and not intended or suggested to be inspired by Paul .. and what parts there may be some inspiration .. it is certainly not all of his writings .. some of which is 100% uninspiring and 100% uninspired.

The answer to this question complain if you like .. but it is completely irrelevant to the Path by which one achieves salvation when in conflict with the Logos .. in any way .. shape .. or form .. we Brother Jeun .. "ALWAYS" default to "The Logos" in such cases where salvation is at stake .. Don't WE ?

As Opposed to Idol Martin .. who been a charlatan phartin .. snake charming varmin .. U Understand ?

 

But that's why thousands of Jews were crucified in 4 BC, and when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_(70_CE) and why Josephus said that Jesus "was crucified on the pretext that he instigated rebellion against Rome, on a par with zealots and other political activists,"
John 11:49-51 https://www.livescience.com/65283-crucifixion-history.html

 

There is NO SCIENTIFIC evidence that this was JESUS' shroud. We don't even know what Jesus looked like. Was he tall, average height or short. Was he thin or overweight. Did he look old as the pictures show. Artists down the ages have all shown different pictures of Jesus. Why? Because we have no idea what he really looked like. Not photos or drawing/paintings of him in life. Evolution is not impossible. It is the most likely way man came into being. Keep up with science. Creation is highly improbable as there is no known God.

 

This is just your biased opinion, your disbelief of Scripture because of your misunderstandings/misinterpretations of Scripture. There are over 300 Messianic prophesies in the OT most of which have been fulfilled in the NT, but we get it you're an atheist who will deny all Biblical truths.

How does a guy who claims he was once a Gospel preacher at his local church on Sundays transitions into a hard-core atheist...it can only be the father of all lies the devil himself infiltrated your mind because you allowed him to enter. You need to expel him from your mind...hurry trev don't wait too long, don't make the grave mistake of going to your death in disbelief with your baggage of sins you have committed throughout your entire life that you are held accountable for. Eternity is such a long time to be wrong in your belief system.

We Read in Scripture:

4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4 NLT

Ok thanks trev for your post. I hope you and other atheists take seriously the warnings of the consequences of being on the wrong side of the faith totem pole. Being separated from Almighty God for all eternity is not a good place to be.

 

It doesn't

 

You will not answer my questions because you can't.

Matthew himself misuses OT scriptures in his nativity story. Luke likewise. Neither Joseph or May had any need to go to Bethlehem Ephratah under Roman or Jewish Law. Matthew says Joseph and family went to Egypt using Hosea 11:1 where it is claimed Israel Jahwehs (Jewish God) son was called out of Egypt. And then in his genealogy - Joseph to Abraham - he forgets he uses this and denies Israel were in Egypt by forgetting the 430 years he previously claimed they were. He gives a aupposedly straight forward Genealogy back to Abraham. This genealogy jumps the 430 years. Even the Jews cannot explain this. By stretching generations they are still left with about a 200 years gap. The rest of the nativity stories make little sense if you know the times and background on which they are written.
Satan was made an enemy of God by Christianity. Before then He was, in Judaism, a servant of God whose job was to test the faith of gods people. Matthew unintentionally made satan an enemy of God through his fanciful story of the testing of Jesus faith. His fancifult story - and note he wasn't there - is simply Jahweh testing Jesus faith. The argument in the book of Job, who didn't really exist, is simply an old question as to why the righteous suffer. It is similar to an earlier similar Akkadian/Babylonian question:-
Ludlul bēl nēmeqi ("I Will Praise the Lord of Wisdom"), also sometimes known in English as The Poem of the Righteous Sufferer, is a Mesopotamian poem (ANET, pp. 434–437) written in Akkadian that concerns itself with the problem of the unjust suffering of an afflicted man, named Šubši-mašrâ-Šakkan (Shubshi-meshre-Shakkan). The author is tormented, but he does not know why. He has been faithful in all of his duties to the gods. He speculates that perhaps what is good to man is evil to the gods and vice versa. He is ultimately delivered from his sufferings.[1]: 440  It is thought to have been composed during the reign of Kassite king of Babylon Nazi-Maruttaš (c. 1307–1282 BC), who is mentioned on line 105 of tablet IV. Wiki.

There are no Messianic prophecies in the OT concerning Jesus. Its all Christian misinterpretion of the OT scriptures. In many cases verses taken out of context. It's a pity you don't study the OT as it was written to, for and by the Jews. Your understanding is limited by what you are told by others - most of whom are just as clueless as you with regard to the real OT.