Part 39 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Salvation is the one of the most scholarly of pursuits .. Hopelessly backwards you have things.

"Knowing about God - Knowing God" .. You neither know about God . nor do you know God.

Just because you don't know God .. does not mean all you learn and speak of him is gossip , rumor, opinion of mankind .. but pretty much that would be the case.

What a ridiculous pile of nonsense thus far.

"Who can be reborn" - Why are you asking me ? You are the one claiming to "Know God" you tell us who can be reborn !

 

Your obstinance is no substitute for reason. Abraham and Muhammed served different masters. And your stirring of point and pointlessness together in attempting to equate them is deceptive. One being a test of fidelity with no victim as a lesson to mankind about putting God first, the other an indiscriminate slaughter of thousands for vengeance.

As for God telling me to fly a plane into a building. I would not do what you tell me to do. And you cannot say what God would require of me. In my experience, the whole of Gods requirements of me have been the putting away of my baser nature. Such as pride, vengeance, wrath, lust, and so forth. Your notion that God is like some alien demon, ordering people to visit misery on the unsuspecting is foreign to me.

I'm not familiar with the history of the Jews. But if God told them to do one thing or another, I'm sure there was good cause and purpose of which we are ignorant. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe there are things missing from the scriptural records and that you simply don't understand them as a result.

In John 21:25 he wrote: "And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." So even the Bible states that the records are incomplete. And if the new testament is incomplete, then it stands to reason that the old testament is likewise incomplete. Not to mention the many hands that have fiddled with it over the ages. And even today, many misrepresent and misinterpret the scriptures for one reason or another. And God does nothing about it. There is no automatic adjustment unto perfection in the matter.

 

Then you worship an image if you worship at all. Good luck with that.

 

??? I didn't mention Mohammed. Where did you get that from?

What are you comparing? The indiscriminate slaughter of thousands? Do you mean the slaughter of all men in neighbouring tribes? The flood? Sodom? The withdrawal of immortality to all of Adam's descendants? Bible God is no stranger to indiscriminate killing. It's kind of a theme.

That does not answer the question. I said IF. Is there anything you would not do for your God? Do you have moral judgment aside from obedience to power? Would you slaughter everyone in the next city over? Would you kill your son?

It's an important question, both because Bible God is depicted demanding others do such things, and because actual people have done such things thinking God told them to, including many who called themselves Christian.

So far he has been peaceful, calming and loving towards you? Like a good supportive father?
That's good but still isn't an answer. Does it mean if God did demand such things of you that you would change your mind about him and cease your obedience to him?

That's a very good point, though I can't imagine what context the text of the bible would be moral. In what context is it good to slaughter every male of a neighboring tribe and take women for yourselves? In what context is it ok to do genocide to the whole human race except for one family? In what context is it ok to obey orders to kill your children as obedience tests? In what context is vicarious redemption or inherited blame moral?

Then again, perhaps this is all wrong, the creation of minds of the time of the people who wrote the text, or changes or errors made later copying it, with all the moral flaws of those people, and perhaps a good loving perfect moral God does exist. And perhaps he tried to send them a message and they simply got it wrong.

That's possible, sure. But then I have to again ask why this all powerful being would do that instead of simply having all humans know what the message was supposed to be. An all powerful being could simply will that flawless understanding into existence and would have no need for written word or messenger go betweens.

That's another question Mitt always avoids addressing.

And with God being all powerful, doesn't that mean he wants it that way? There are millions Christians who got the message wrong as you note above (and as we see them disagreeing in this very thread), and billions of believers in other religions. Most of them honestly think they have it right and wish just as much as you do to serve God.

 

There is not a BIG DIFFERENCE between a truth and a fact. They're pretty close in definitions but yes I agree a truth is subjective, while a fact is a fact...meaning it's undeniable, indisputable, never changes.

For example, when you say we humans have been much more creative than animals, that is a fact. But when you say you are in Timbuktu, then that is a truth, at least for the exact moment. But later on several hours from that time you may have gone somewhere else like to lake Titicaca in your private jet making your previous statement a fallacy.

So a truth is something that is not universal, it is more subjective, and depends on the current situation, while facts are undeniable, indisputable, never changes.

Ok thanks Above for your post.

 

So confused --- unable to think straight - things completely backwards - trying to tar me with your deeds, for it is you that worships an image --- of your own creation .. convicted by your own words - "all you learn and speak of him is gossip, rumor, opinion, and traditions of mankind"

What else do you have - other than what you yourself posted above .. the box that you have created in which you put God .. this created image that you worship .. and then run around trying to tar others with your failings.

 

You the one be worshiping the image .. now quit trying to tar me with your failings and answer the question ..you put out ... "Who can be Reborn" --- Something wrong mate ? did you miss that part ? it is your own dang question after all .. wasn't me the one that stumped you this time .. gosh darn stumped yourself !

 

Flying planes into buildings. That's the God of Mohammed

To your posit between Abraham offering his Son. And the Islamic terrorists who flew planes into the WTC.

I know that everything God requires is just. So if you are asking if God required an unjust thing, you are asking an impossibility. Not to mention that that which took place five thousand years ago between tribes is a far sight from me and my neighbor with whom I have zero drama.

Answered above.

I am guessing it has to do with the agency of man, the probationary nature of life, and the seasons and times thru which we go and change. We aren't a cookie cutter creation. And everyone requires a different timetable. I don't know of other religions. I only know of my life and Gods entry into it. His work of redemption is afoot as we speak. So to speak of it now is to take a snapshot which ignores what was and is to come.

I don't know the mind and will of God in all things. Some plan for the near future,, some plan further out, others plan for the century, and God plans for eternity. So how can we fathom his purposes now. In Noah's day, God sent Prophets to call his people to repentance and warn them of coming calamity. All but Noah and his family ignored God, stoned and killed his servants. But Noah listened and did as told and was spared. So who is responsible for all those who died. Wasn't it they themselves. Same with Jesus Christ. After having driven out and killed the Prophets over the centuries, then killing Gods own Son along with his followers after all the encouragement from God to right their ways. The Jews were driven to the four quarters of the earth. Coincidence? Whose fault is their outcome when they drive away and ignore all encouragement otherwise which might have spared them?

 

Got that right - and in the school of Lucifer the lines get blurred real quick .. not a big difference between truth and falsehood.

Now what is the Truth you are seeking Brother Mitt - and which school have you been attending - and why are you so afraid to share the identity of the God that you worship but instead wander the halls talking to ghosts from 2014 ?

 

I thought that was your God as well Injeun ? Do you not worship the God of Abraham ?

 

Do you have vertigo or something?

 

Why are you trying to demonize the messenger .. you the one talking about the worshipers God of Mohammad driving planes into buildings .. then calling me dizzy .... cause you just figured out that the God of Mohammad is the same God you worship.

 

You are babbling.

 

You are the one convicted by your own words .. failing to answer your own question "Who can be reborn"

Who is the one babbling -- asking questions they can't answer. Lets hear it Brother Injeun -- "Who can Be Reborn" according to LDS ?

 

Judaism and Christianity are related. Judaism predates Christianity by four thousand years. Islam is not part of it as it came along six hundred years after Christ. Abrahams God is not Mohammed's God. Neither are their followers today of the same faith. Never were and never will be. Sheesh, that's obvious. But if you choose to see them the same, that's your right. I will speak my words. You speak your own.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about. If that is your goal, congratulations, you have succeeded.

 

Your words thus far have been avoidance and deflection from previous positions. Your claim that Islam does not worship the God of Abraham is preposterous nonsense.. as that is the name of the God they claim they worship .. talk about speaking someone elses words for them .. projecto-rama going on here.

They even use the Torah .. just like Christians .. same book .. different prophet .. thats the only difference .. Same God of Abraham .. which is why it is called an Abrahamic Religion .. "Sheesh thats obvious" . . yup .. thought you might have heard that .

but no worries .. the question here is which God the LDS worship ... and if not the God of Abraham .. which God did Mohamad Worship according to "What you speak" ..

 

Those guys who flew the planes into buildings thought it just. The Christians who killed witches at Salem thought it just. Whenever anybody does anything violent and heinous for a God, they think it just. So that's not relevant to what I asked you. I asked you if there is any action you would refuse to do for your God. Would you slaughter neighbours, your children, or burn infidels, etc? Would it be just, merely because God demanded it?

Do you think those others believed these prophets were actually from God? If they didn't, then can you really say they turned their backs on God or ignored what he tried to tell them? Remember this is an all powerful God who could have made them know what he wanted them to, and THEN he could see if they obeyed him. You can't disobey orders you don't get.

God was. In every way. He created these people knowing exactly how they would react. And he possibly failed to make them know his message was actually from him.

If he is all powerful then all is exactly as he wishes it to be. Thats what all powerful means. So yes, he is responsible. Great power comes with great responsibility, infinite power comes with infinite responsibility.

Why is it that Christians like to give God all the credit and none of the blame?

 

You were the one who asked the question "Who can be Reborn" --- so then what ? Do we have a case of you having no idea what you are talking about ?

Can you not answer your own question "Who can be Reborn" ? and if you can't ... why would you expect others to be able to answer ?

 

Gods judgments are always a long time coming, and right when they do, like fruit in season. The key resides in what we love and the choices we make. You seem to be suggesting that were it not for the presence of evil, we would only do good and be a pleasure to our Father. But what measure of a man is that...to be undependable, untrustworthy, untried and untested, and who, given the option, chooses evil and rejects the good when it comes.....repeatedly.

Can such be justly called the Sons and Daughters of the living God? Can it be said they are unaware when in fact they knew and simply didn't care. If I rape, murder and rob my neighbor, is it Gods fault? Was there no voice saying NO the whole while? Was my neighbor not pleading as well? And how many lines did I cross to get to that point. Did God not plead with me the whole while along the course of my life.

 

No. IF they knew, then they were not unaware. But I am questioning if they knew. I doubt that they did. Simply claiming that they were told isn't enough. You have been told that Allah is God and what Allah wants of you, and you don't know it to be true. Today I see so many different religions, and so many different and conflicting understandings within your own religion, all of which can't be true, since they conflict. I also know that atheists exist, who don't believe any of these God claims are true. So IF your God is true and your understanding of him is true and what he wants from us is what you say, MOST of us don't know that to be the case.

It is your fault.

But ultimately, yes, it is also God's fault, if he's all powerful, created you knowing you would do it before you were born, etc. Again that's the thing about infinite power, it comes with infinite responsibility. You can't separate the two.

 

Adding seven exclamation marks after your statement doesn't make your statement a fact, you're just expressing your charged up emotions being adamant about it as it pertains to what you believe as truth.

That's your definition of what you believe an ape consists of and of others who agree with you, however there are lots of people who are in disagreement, especially from the people who practice the Christian faith. We believe humans were created in the image of God. This separates us from the animal kingdom who were not created in the image of God. God blessed us and told us to be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.

And we humans have indeed been fruitful and multiplied, filled the earth and governed it and we've also reigned over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground. So we've done what God had wanted us to do that pertains to this part of Scripture.

We Read in Scripture:

24 Then God said, “Let the earth produce every sort of animal, each producing offspring of the same kind—livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and wild animals.” And that is what happened. 25 God made all sorts of wild animals, livestock, and small animals, each able to produce offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make human beings[a] in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”

27 So God created human beings[c] in his own image.
In the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 Then God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground.” Genesis 1:24-28 NLT

Nope...sorry...but you just can't say it's a fact but you certainly can say it's your belief, theory, assumption,...etc.

So to say, "a HUMAN BEING IS IN FACT AN APE" is really an invalid statement, because your statement is not undeniable, is not indisputable. You have no substantiated, indisputable evidence.

And again as I've said there are many who oppose what you believe to be truthful & factual. A fact is something everyone can agree on, like for example, the sun's temperature is way over a 100 degrees Celsius.

Your emotions are really getting charged up now, I mean you're now inserting exclamation marks before your question marks...all three of them before the five question marks...simmer down Above...I hope you took a chill pill to simmer yourself down after you generated this post.

But anyway what we understand is what God revealed to us in Scripture and by golly I believe wholeheartedly what He has revealed to us and it doesn't take much to believe what He has told us, I mean it's just so obvious.

Well I myself am concerned with what's going on and I do feel sorry for people such as yourself Above for believing in what you believe in. To believe humans are apes and all the other stuff people are believing now is just too crazy, some people have lost their minds to be frank about it.

The belief that everything in the universe was caused by nothing, was just accidental is just so absurdly ridiculous.

One needs tons of faith to believe something can come from nothing as is the belief of the many godless peoples of the world. If anybody has stopped thinking...it's these people. Their logic is illogical therefore flawed. Because from nothing, nothing comes. But from something, like an All-Powerful, All-Intelligent Eternal Being such as the Creator Almighty God can the universe and everything else come into existence.

We Read in Scripture:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2 NLT

Well ok Above, thanks for your post.

 

I don't know what else to say. Maybe you should instruct God.

 

No, facts are what is true, not necessarily what people all agree on. Reality doesn't changed based on unanimous consensus of beliefs. The world was round even before we knew it. And if your God exists, he exists regardless of if I agree be does. And if he doesn't, then he doesn't regardless of how much you believe he does.

 

There ya go speaking for God again --- You know nothing of God's Judgement right - wrong or otherwise .. hence your inability to answer or comprehend the most basic questions - "Who can achieve Salvation" - "Who can be reborn"

You know nothing of God's judgement ... and don't even have good hypothesis .. or the ability to distinguish good from bad judgement in the first place .. putting God in some strange box .. then accusing others of typecasting God .. when it be you the one guilty.