Part 5 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Mar 15, 2013.

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  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Since women buy into those religious fairy tales more than men they must like being treated like dirt.
     
  2. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by Gorn Captain:

    Mitt Ryan, I know you're trying to catch up....but really interested in an answer to my question-

    You claimed there are "evil people and righteous people" and we can "distinquish them"....

    yet the Apostle Paul in Romans says there are NO "righteous people".

    So who's right...you or Paul?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've pretty much answered this question concerning "righteous people". Go see my post #82 of this thread.
     
  3. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Why did Jesus choose all men? Firstly, why does it bother you that it was all men? In fact we can ask also why all Hebrews no none Hebrews? or why create Adam first and not Eve? why no gays or lesbians? As to why all men was chosen, nobody knows for certain in fact it was not an issue at all especially during Jesus time at the same time too Jesus never discriminated women among his followers were women;
    Luke. 23:28-31
    Jesus turning to them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never gave suck!' Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us'; and to the hills, ‘Cover us'. For if they do this when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?"

    During Jesus time, men were consider the providers and protectors that is why IMO the Apostles were all men. Maybe if Jesus had come today His Apostles would be multiracial, multigender.

    Do I think men were superior than women back then? yes, how about now? not as much anymore.
    Do I consider women's place back then was the home? yes How about now? No.

    You have to understand the situation back then and now.

    It is only you who are making false claims and spreading untruthful (lies) that the Catholic church treats women as inferior, now you understand who is spreading falsehood.
    Please post all your examples so that we can refute them all with the hope that you will understand the truth.

    From the tone of your post can I assume that you have deep bitterness and anger towards men?? Would it make you happier if Jesus had chosen 12 women instead of men? How about Jesus why is he a he? Why didn't God conceived a woman?
     
  4. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    It is the scholars that are theorizing the Hebrews are Hyksos not the Bible, the Bible is very clear Hebrews are Hebrews.
     
  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by The Wyrd of God:

    Let's hope so. Most people go buggy after an hour in church. If they had to do it 24/7 for eternity they would gladly jump into the lake of fire.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Without any hesitation I would much better prefer to do 24/7 for eternity than jumping into the lake of fire for eternity.
    My mother didn't raise no fool!...lol
     
  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by GraspingforPeace:

    You keep claiming people are miscomprehending what you say, but I really don't think that's the case. You still haven't explained how it was ME miscomprehending what you were saying when you declared that God could never do evil... And then declare in the very next paragraph that he uses evil to combat evil.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well yes because it happens to be true, my fellow atheists friends keep misunderstanding what I say.

    I guess it's because their minds are geared to interpret the way they want to understand it so as to make anything to do with the bible discredible. Atheists are afflicted with a disorder called misinterpretlitis...lol

    When God combats evil, He is not committing evil Himself, rather He is punishing evil and justifiably so, thus God could never do evil. Everything He does is righteous!

    He is perfectly Holy which means He does not sin. To committ evil is to sin.
     
  7. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by Woody:

    Pyramid explanation please. If there was a world wide flood how come the pyramids show no signs of being underwater. The rest I am still on the fence.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's rather obvious that the Great Flood happened well before any pyramids were built.
     
  8. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What about Lilith?

    Did Adam just decide he wanted some strange tail...or is she unimportant to the story?
     
  9. Woody

    Woody New Member

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    Your kidding right? You obviously have done no research on the issue and are just accepting whats in that book. Then how does your book explain the fact that Egypt has been continously occupied since 5400BCE? If there was a flood there would have been gaps in the historical record which they are not.

    http://ih8religion.tumblr.com/post/3962492045/source-were-the-egyptian-pyramids-ever

    How do you explain the ruins of Tiahuanaco

    http://fallencreature.wordpress.com/genesis-files/built-before-the-flood-the-mystery-of-tiahuanaco/

    Of all the great civilizations that was on the face of this planet how come there are no gaps to explain a world wide flood?

    Archaeological Evidences of Pre-Flood Civilizations
    by Don Daae, P.Geol.

    http://www.gira.ca/cmsms/index.php?page=pre-flood
     
  10. MrConservative

    MrConservative Well-Known Member

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    What proof do you have of this? Have you considered that the Great Flood story is didactic literature, and not meant to be literally true. Are you also aware of the Babylonian Epic of Gilgamesh which bears a striking similarity to the flood story found in the Bible?
     
  11. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    http://www.history.com/topics/the-egyptian-pyramids
    Though pyramids were built from the beginning of the Old Kingdom to the close of the Ptolemaic period in the fourth century A.D., the peak of pyramid building began with the late third dynasty and continued until roughly the sixth (c. 2325 B.C.).

    It's rather obvious you don't do research. I retract my earlier post.
    It seems they were building them right through the flood.
     
  12. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    I've done very brief research into lilith. There isn't much out there. So I don't give the story much credit.
     
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Allow me to assist your research:

    . There are creation accounts of two women in Genesis. The first woman is made from dust at
    the same time as Adam. The second is created later from Adam’s side. The creation account of the
    second woman, Eve, comes in Ge 2:21-25. Those passages clearly indicate Eve was created from
    Adam’s side. The first woman’s creation is told three times, once in Ge 1:26-29, again in Ge 2:4-8, and
    briefly recapped in Ge 5:1-2. All three accounts imply both Adam and this woman were created at the
    same time using dust (and muck) from the ground. Although a cursory English reading of the second
    account appears to show this woman missing, there are numerous evidences in the literal Hebrew
    that a woman named Adamah was created with Adam at this time, and that her body was watered by a
    mist.

    More Details on the Two Creation Accounts


    2. A careful reading of the Hebrew in the detailed creation account of Adam reveals that a woman
    was created at the same time. The passages declare that they are documenting the creation of “the
    generations of the heavens and of the earth”. This odd phraseology refers to two rival generations
    being created at that time. Those generations are that of “the man” (Adam) and that of “the woman” (i.
    e. Adamah or Lilith). Adam’s generation would be that of the earth, taking after the likeness of God’s
    animating breath from heaven. Lilith’s generations would be that of the heavens, taking after the
    likeness of the fallen Watchers and Lucifer’s animating waters. These waters came from a mist
    breaking up through the ground during Adam’s creation (Ge 2:6).

    More Details on Lilith's Creation Account in Ge 2:4-8


    3. In the first and third creation accounts of a man and woman in Ge 1:26-29 and Ge 5:1-2, the
    passages clearly states that when the male and female were created, only the male was created in
    God’s image. The female not being created in God’s image is consistent with Lilith. She was created
    by God, but not in His image, for a demonic mist arouse from the ground and animated her in it’s image
    instead (Ge 2:6). Note that Eve would bear God’s image, for she was taken out of Adam’s side.

    More Details on the First Woman Not Being Created in God's Image


    4. Conflicting commands of God to the two women of the creation accounts above further indicate
    they must be different individuals. Ge 1:26-29 states that after the first woman and Adam were
    created, God gave freedom to both to eat the fruit of every tree. All trees were allowed. However,
    Eve could have never received permission to eat of every tree. This is because after Adam was
    moved to the Garden but before Eve was created in Ge 2:18-25, God warns Adam that he may no
    longer eat of every tree. God warns that he could not eat of the tree of knowledge and that he must
    “guard” the garden (Ge 2:15-17). Thus the prohibition against eating all trees is already in place
    before Eve’s creation. She cannot be the woman referenced in Ge 1:26-29 whom God grants
    permission to eat of all trees.

    5. In Ge 5:2 God gave a single name “Adam” to denote both the female and male. This single name
    supports a dual simultaneous creation from dust for Adam and his first mate. It also implies that the
    name of Adam’s first female would be Adamah, as the feminine form of Adam comes is adamah, which
    means “ground” and is the root from which the name Adam is derived. This supports the word-play in
    Ge 2:6 which states that the face of the Adamah (i.e. Lilith) was watered by the mist. This is consistent
    with the legend of Lilith’s creation from muck and mud.

    6. Lilith explains why God rescinded permission to eat of every tree; why the tree of knowledge
    came to exist; and why Adam had to guard the garden.

    7. Lilith explains Adam’s lonely state in Ge 2:18. As the literal Hebrew of Ge 2:18 confirms, God did
    not create Adam alone, but rather Adam “became alone” after some time. Lilith explains how Adam
    became alone. She also explains the timing of Eve’s creation after Adam’s unsuccessful search
    among the beasts of the field (which includes Lilith) for a mate.

    More Details on how Adam "Became Alone"


    8. In Ge 2:18 the literal Hebrew states that Eve was made as a helpmate for Adam “like one shown
    before him”. This odd phraseology implies a woman companion was physically shown to Adam before
    Eve existed. It even implies that Eve was made as a replacement for this first woman. This is all
    consistent with Lilith.

    More Details on Helpmate Shown to Adam Before Eve


    9. After Eve’s creation in Ge 2:23, Adam awakes and exclaims upon seeing her, “This time is this!”
    The Hebrew term for “this time”, hapa’am, is used when an event repeats and the subsequent event is
    being compared to the first. It could perhaps best be understood in English as “at this iteration”. So
    Adam could understood as saying, “At this iteration is this!”, in reference to Eve standing before him.
    Adam’s use of this word implies that he is comparing Eve’s creation to a previous creation, namely
    Lilith’s. The point of his comparison is that “this time” the result was “bone from my bone and flesh
    from my flesh”, as opposed to Lilith’s creation from dust, or rather mud.

    More Details on How Adam Declares That Eve was the Second Helpmate Created for Him


    10. The Serpent was not a snake, but rather the most cunning mammal. This is consistent with the
    serpent being Lilith. Ge 3:1 clearly states that the serpent was the most cunning “beast of the field”.
    In Genesis this term refers to higher mammals that are soulish creatures with developed minds and
    emotions. The term does not apply to reptiles or lower animals. Lilith best fits the unique description
    as the most cunning of these mammals. She is considered a beast and not human because she does
    not bear the spirit and image of God, but rather that of her father Lucifer. And with the mind of man
    and animating spirit of Lucifer, she is certainly the most cunning.

    11. The Hebrew noun translated “Serpent”, nachash, is strongly suggestive of a human speaking
    through an indwelling demonic spirit. This is consistent with Lilith. Nachash comes from the verb root
    nechash, which means ‘to divine’ or ‘divination’. The root originally meant ‘to hiss’ or ‘to whisper’. It
    came to mean ‘to divine’ because it was used to describe the whispers of the soothsayers, whom
    obtain their powers through the whispering voice of an indwelling demonic spirit. These inhabited
    soothsayers were predominately women. The only creature recorded in the Bible as experiencing
    nechash divination is man. In the Bible the noun nachash (“serpent”) always refers to a demonically
    inhabited creature of cursing. If the Serpent is human, Lilith provides the only possible origin of that
    human.

    12. Lilith best explains Leviathan, which is the most famous nachash Serpent of the Bible.
    Leviathan is commonly recognized as Lucifer in the form of the Serpent of the garden. Leviathan is
    described In Job 26:13 and Isa 27:1 as a winged Serpent fleeing from before God and dwelling in the
    seas. This matches Lilith’s legend of fleeing on wing from the garden and her subsequent oceanic
    abode. 1 Enoch confirms that Leviathan dwells in the seas, and adds that Leviathan is female. This
    again matches Lilith. Psalm 74:14 speaks of God crushing the heads of Leviathan. This matches God’s
    curse on the Serpent in Genesis that Eve’s seed in the form of Messiah would crush the head of the
    Serpent.

    13. Job 26:13 implies the Serpent Leviathan’s creation was analogous to that of Adam – that it was
    fashioned by God through twisting and manipulating of earth into a golem. This similar creation
    supports the notion that the Serpent was created at the same time as Adam and in a similar fashion.
    This is consistent with the Serpent being the first woman, Lilith, created from dust of the earth.

    14. The Serpent’s extreme intelligence and ability to speak is best explained by it being human.
    The Lilith legend provides the only real explanation for the origins of this human. The general tenor
    of Genesis implies that the Serpent’s intelligence and ability to speak is not supernatural or
    unexpected, but rather the natural created state of the being. It certainly did not surprise Adam or
    Eve to see the Serpent talking. It is inconceivable that they would express no surprise over seeing
    an animal speaking. The Zohar (Pekudei: Passage 454) also holds that the Serpent’s ability to speak,
    its cunningness, and its power of seduction were all native to it. Samael (Lucifer) rode the Serpent
    and used these innate abilities to his advantage.

    15. Job 26:13 and Isa 27:1 speak of a continual and eternal connection between Lucifer and the
    Serpent Leviathan. This is best explained by the Serpent being fathered of Lucifer and animated in
    his likeness, because the Serpent’s habitation or possession by Lucifer would be a temporary and
    reversible condition. A continual and eternal connection between Lucifer and the Serpent cannot be
    achieved by mere spiritual habitation. Demonic spirits can be exorcized from their host. The Lilith
    legend provides an explanation for this irreversible fusing event with the Serpent. Lucifer became
    the animating father spirit of the Serpent Lilith when his mist broke through from the depths of the
    earth and watered the ground of her creation. Lucifer became her fathering spirit just as God had
    become Adam’s fathering spirit, and Lucifer’s spirit could no more be separated from Lilith than could
    God’s spirit be separated from Adam.

    16. The strong parallels between God’s curses laid out against Eve and the Serpent in Ge 3:15
    imply that the Serpent, like Eve, was a woman and a would-be mother. Both were said to be the
    source of two rival seeds. The Serpent’s seed would bruise the heal of Eve’s seed, but Eve’s seed
    would crush the head of the Serpent.

    17. The curses handed out to the Serpent and to Eve in Ge 3:14-16 are the same as those of the
    bitter water trial for the wayward adulterous wife in Nu 5:10-31. The Serpent’s curses match those of
    the adulterous wife, and Eve’s curse in childbirth matches that experienced by the innocent woman of
    the trial. The Serpent, in the role of the defiled Sotah, eats dust and is cursed in her belly, and she
    shall be slain by the promised seed of the innocent woman. Eve, as the innocent woman in the trial,
    shall temporarily endure the curse of pain in childbirth, but she shall be saved by her seed. This
    strong parallelism further solidifies the identification of the Serpent as an adulterous female whom
    has gone astray from under her husband, Adam.

    18. Isa 34 describes a demon named “Lilith” as a deadly birdlike creature with wings and as the
    slayer of stray younglings. A snake makes a nest with Lilith and is innately fused with her, such that
    the two are considered one being. She dwells in the midst of the sea and shares her abode with
    certain angels cast out of heaven. In a day of cursing and judgment, the waters of her abode whither
    such that streams of water become molten tar, and the dust of the earth becomes burning brimstone.
    Isaiah’s entire description of Lilith matches her legend. The withering waters and fiery curses mirror a
    bitter water curse, with which the spirit of Lilith is associated.

    19. In Proverbs 30 a demoness titled Alukah is described as having a mystical power like that of
    the bitter water cursing agent in a Sotah trial, which is the spirit of Lilith. When two type of barren
    women are given over to the power of Alukah’s curse, two difference outcomes are possible. For the
    woman who survives the ordeal, Alukah’s curses somehow grant her a promised seed, but to the
    other barren woman of the trial, Alukah brings the curses of death. In Rabbinic tradition Alukah’s rich
    and detailed mythos matches enumerable aspects of Lilith. Alukah was the mother of alukah, which
    are female vampires called estries. Common attributes between alukah and the spirit of Lilith
    includes: 1) both had winged flight and a birdlike appearance, 2) both engaged in the murder of
    children, 3) both of their powers were activated by unleashing their hair, 4) both of their cursed
    powers could be revitalized by deceitful eating, 5) both were constrained by an oath, 6) saying “amen”
    concerning either women was dangerous, 7) the death or banishment of both was effectively brought
    about by filling her mouth with earth.

    http://www.bitterwaters.com/Lilith_in_Bible.html

    You are Welcome.
     
  14. Gorn Captain

    Gorn Captain Banned

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    Just read it. So basically there are "evil sinners" and "righteous sinners"? And words (like "righteous") "mean different things" from one book of the Bible to another?
     
  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by Pilate:

    Can you morally justify Abraham's intention to sacrifice Isaac?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Abraham faith was being tested by God and Abraham believed that God would bring back Isaac from the dead and so Abraham was seriously going to go through with this sacrifice.

    Let me explain further below about Abraham's Faith Tested.

    "Abraham!" God called. "Yes," he replied. "Here I am." "Take your son, your only son--yes, Isaac, whom you love so much--and go to the land of Moriah. Go and sacrifice him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will show you." Gen. 22:1-2 NLT

    When they arrived at the place where God had told him to go, Abraham built an altar and arranged the wood on it. Then he tied his son, Isaac, and laid him on the altar on top of the wood. And Abraham picked up the knife to kill his son as a sacrifice. At that moment the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven, "Abraham! Abraham! "Yes," Abraham replied, "Here I am!" "Don't lay a hand on the boy!" the angel said. "Do not hurt him in any way, for now I know that you truly fear God. You have not withheld from me even your son, your only son." Gen. 22:9-12 NLT

    God knew Abraham's faith, knew that he would kill his son as a sacrifice, so why did God need to test him? Furthermore, If God knows all things, why did He say (through His angel)..."I know now" as though He had not known it before? Did God require evidence to be convinced of the faith of Abraham? We will see that something else is at work in this passage.

    Scripture tells us God knows all things, past, present, future. Everything that is exists only because He knows it. So for God "not to know" is for the thing not only not exist but unable to exist. All that has being or could possibly have being is known to God. There can be no sense whatsoever in which God looks to the world so as to grow in knowledge of that which He has created. God is all about Truth.

    God not only knew Abraham's faith, but also knew Abraham would be willing to offer his son Isaac in a sacrifice. God knows all that will ever be and, while still respecting human freedom, He without error knew all that Abraham would freely choose. So we can be certain that God did not test Abraham in order to discover whether he had true faith.

    God "tested" Abraham to make his faith known both to himself (Abraham) and to all the world. God put Abraham to the test as a way of revealing to all people that Abraham is truly the Father of believers.

    It happens in Scripture that God is said to “know” something, in the sense that He “makes it to be known.” Likewise, God is said to “not know” something, insofar as he “does not make it to be known.” Thus it is that, in this passage, God tests Abraham – not as seeking knowledge, but as making truth to be known to others.

    The angel, speaking in the person of God, says, "For now I know that you truly fear God" It is not as though it is only at this late moment, when Abraham has offered his son Isaac to God, that God has come to know of Abraham’s faith – God was not learning something new here. Rather, it was at this moment that God (through his angelic messenger) has made Abraham’s faith to be known both to Abraham and to all.

    In summary, the testing of Abraham was not unto God’s benefit, but for Abraham (the father of the Jewish nation of Israel) sake and ours. So when God test people it is really for their benefit so they can really see themselves so to speak.
     
  16. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by AlphaOmega:

    IF he did destroy mankind then he committed acts of murder.
    Murder is evil.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    When God destroyed mankind in the Great Flood He did not commit acts of murder, rather He was punishing mankind for their sinful, evil wicked corruption in a world gone wrong and justifiably so.

    Since God is the Creator and has sovereign rule, He had every right to punish His creation when they were living lives of sinful, evil wicked corruption in a world gone wrong.
     
  17. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    One problem. Issac wasn't HIS only son. If he only had 1 son, it would have to be Ishmael. As he was about 14 yrs older than Issac.

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://www.politicalforum.com/religion-philosophy/293827-part-5-post-your-tough-questions-regarding-christianity-12.html#post1062406819

    Couldn't have happened as the bible describes.
     
  18. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Golly....what a swell fellow this God person is.

    Excuse me while I go stomp on my sisters goldfish.
     
  19. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by AlphaOmega:

    Do dogs get into heaven? Its a simple question. Why does it take you catechists forever to answer?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Why concern yourself over dogs? You should be concerned with yourself, by asking: will I get to heaven? From the looks of how you've been expressing yourself on this thread, I'm sure you know the answer and so why would you want to know if dogs get into heaven?
     
  20. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    If God knows all things, past present and future, why would he test Abraham as He already knew what he would do? Abraham was already the person who would pass this test, so what would he gain?

    When you look at it logically, as if it really happened, it makes no sense whatsoever.
    As a morality tale you can make the case it is useful.
     
  21. Woody

    Woody New Member

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    Yeah, to bad they did not have lethal imjection then he deserved it.....
     
  22. Woody

    Woody New Member

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  23. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by The Wyrd of God:

    OK, so God killed off humanity because he thought mankind was evil. So what? Are we less evil than people were before the flood? If that's so they they were some very bad people. The story is nonsense.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Your statement "God killed off humanity because he thought mankind was evil" is not a valid statement when you used the word "thought"

    No, no. The correct statement would be, "God killed off humanity because He knew all of mankind was evil." This would be a valid statement. Remember God is omniscient.

    To answer your question, yes we are less evil now than people were before the flood. And yes those people were indeed very bad people and I mean very bad people.

    And no the story is not nonsense, well I guess for an atheist it is nonsense.

    It's because satan is keeping you in the dark, he wants as much company in hell as he can get...that murderous evil corrupted bad angel!...and I mean bad angel!
     
  24. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Your question is already answered in the post. Go back and read it carefully. I tell ya, you atheists are surely very poor in comprehending what you read...my! my!...lol
     
  25. Woody

    Woody New Member

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    And where is your statistical analysis that proves this statement?

    It's nonsense to anyone with half a brain.
     
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