Part 5 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Mar 15, 2013.

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  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by GraspingforPeace:

    Yep, your God is also too feeble to simply destroy Satan, we get it.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We know that Almighty God will one day defeat satan, Scripture tells us, "Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." Revelation 20:10 NLT

    Sometimes we wonder why God has not destroyed satan already. From our finite human perspective we will never know God’s exact reasoning, but we do know certain things about His nature.

    First, we know God is absolutely sovereign over all creation, and of course this includes satan. Certainly, satan and his demons wreak havoc in the world, but they are only allowed a certain amount of freedom. We also know that God has planned everything from the beginning of time to the end. Nothing can obstruct His plans, and things are proceeding exactly on schedule.

    "The Lord of hosts has sworn saying, "Surely, just as I have intended so it has happened, and just as I have planned so it will stand." Isaiah 14:24 NAS

    Second, "And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 NAS

    Whatever God has planned for satan, that plan will be the best one possible. God’s perfect wrath and justice will be satisfied, and His perfect righteousness will be glorified. Those who love Him and who wait for His plan to be fulfilled will be thrilled to be part of that plan and will praise and glorify Him as they see it unfold.

    Third, we know that to question God’s plan and its timing is to question God Himself, His character, His judgment and His very nature. It is not wise to question His right to do exactly as He pleases.

    Scripture tells us, "As for God, His way is blameless; The word of the Lord is tried; He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him." Psalm 18:30 NAS

    We know that whatever plan comes from the mind of Almighty God it is the best plan possible. It is true that we can’t expect to understand that mind perfectly, as God reminds us, "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways, For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9 NAS

    Nevertheless, our responsibility to God is to obey Him, to trust Him, and to submit to His will, whether we understand it or not. In the case of His timing for satan’s end, it has to be the best possible plan because it is God’s plan.
     
  2. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    Why do you believe the Bible is inerrant? What led you to think this?
     
  3. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Quote Posted by Moishe3rd:

    Mathew 7:15-19
    15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

    What do you think this passage means?
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    It telling us to beware of false prophets who are teachers of erroneous doctrines, who come professing a commission from God, but whose real goal is not to bring the heavenly treasure to the people, but rather to rob them of their earthly good.

    Teachers who preach for hire, having no motive to enter into the ministry but to get a living, are nothing but ravenous wolves, whose design is to feed themselves with the fat, and clothe themselves with the fleece, and thus ruin, instead of save, the flock.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Posted by Moishe3rd:

    Mathew 7:15-19
    15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

    What do you think this passage means?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It telling us to beware of false prophets who are teachers of erroneous doctrines, who come professing a commission from God, but whose real goal is not to bring the heavenly treasure to the people, but rather to rob them of their earthly good.

    Teachers who preach for hire, having no motive to enter into the ministry but to get a living, are nothing but ravenous wolves, whose design is to feed themselves with the fat, and clothe themselves with the fleece, and thus ruin, instead of save, the flock.
     
  4. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only answer to this would be ignorance.

    One must ignore Physics.
    One must ignore Inconsistency.
    One must ignore Archeology.
    One must ignore Time.
    One must ignore Logic.

    And...that one need dismiss reality.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The only answer to this would be ignorance.

    One must ignore Physics.
    One must ignore Inconsistency.
    One must ignore Archeology.
    One must ignore Time.
    One must ignore Logic.

    And...that one need dismiss reality.
     
  5. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    When you going to prove that point?
     
  6. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    Ah, sorry, I didn't know that God was a dictator.
     
  7. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    So, he presented a "sacrifice". Thus, I don't see how he could possibly be against human sacrifices.
     
  8. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    How were they aware of God's power? Secondly, what about the other six nations that were "pushed out" of Israel?

    I didn't know that seduction was punishable by death.

    Yep, what a messed up system.

    Dictatorship.

    Then I don't see how God could ever be considered moral.

    Yeah, too bad there wasn't some omnipotent being that could help them out or something :rolleyes:

    Then that gives us a right to kill newborns if we feel that they will be swayed by the cultures they grow up in, right?

    No, not according to you. According to you it is extremely easy to explain: God is not culpable for his actions.
     
  9. Woody

    Woody New Member

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    He can't....thats the reason it keeps being ignored.
     
  10. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Because there are no errors so far as I can tell, when one reads it comprehensively.
     
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We know roughly when the Ark made land. Noah was still alive when Abraham was born and we are told how old Noah was when the Ark made ground and how old he was when he died.

    We know the people that were around during Abraham's time. The only grey area is how long the people were in Egypt. The Exodus is dated from 1200-1400 BC which puts Abraham roughly from 1700 to 1900 BC and the Ark making ground from roughly 2000 to 2200 BC. +/- a couple of hundred years .

    It does not make any different as there were continuous civilizations throughout this time period in many places all over the world.

    These civilizations did not start and stop again. When we look at the bones they are the same ethnic background throughout. Obviously if everyone came from Noah the civilization would stop and when it started again the ethnic background would be different.

    The other problem with the Noah story is that "he was still alive when Abraham was walking the earth".

    Obviously and without any shadow of a doubt, if the father of all civilization was still alive and walking the earth at the time of Abraham then the peoples of the Earth would worship this man. Everyone would know that the father of all humanity was still walking the earth.

    Centuries later they would still be celebrating the death of Noah an telling stories of Noah.

    Funny thing ? We have creation stories from Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Assyrians from the time period of Abraham and earlier. These stories tell where the people thought they came from.

    Not one mentions Noah. 350 Years of Noah living with these people and during this time they write stories of their creation that do not include Noah.

    We know that when the ice melted after the last ice age roughly 14,000 years ago sea level rose dramatically. (over 100 meters if memory serves)

    Folks back then, as now, built cities near the ocean. Cities all over the earth were submerged (hence the flood stories from every culture in the world)

    We have found a number of these submerged cities.

    There was no Global food and repopulation of all the animals and humans on earth 2100-2300 BC. It just didn't happen.
     
  12. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    God didn't present the sacrifice, the sacrifice of Jesus was voluntary, as were all the sacrifices of the martyrs thereafter.

    It always the same as when Rev Martin Luther king sacrificed his life inthe name of Truth, because that Truth can NOT be killed, and will not perish, but will always rise up again from the ashes of the attempt to make it go away.



    22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
     
  13. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    Well, to be honest, I don't really see Jesus' sacrifice as much of a sacrifice if we are assuming that he is God.
     
  14. dreadpiratejaymo

    dreadpiratejaymo New Member

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    I am not talking about the barbarism of men. I am talking of the barbarism that the bible condones. Things like slavery, Human Sacrifice, and violence.

    And the bible has actually been used as justification for persecution throughout the ages. I seriously doubt it was any comfort to the people who were maimed and tortured in the name of the bible and Christianity.
     
  15. dreadpiratejaymo

    dreadpiratejaymo New Member

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    Yeah, Jesus wasn't so brave or sacrificial at all if you consider that he didn't need faith of any kind to believe.
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How did he spectacled bear get from South America to Noah ( grow wings and fly ?) and then how did it get back home.

    The world in the third millennium BC was not much different than it is today.

    No he didn't. Where do you get this stuff from ?

    We have never found any kangaroo bones anywhere but in Australia. Same goes for hundreds of other species.

    It is absolute madness to suggest that our continents were shaped as a result of the flood. We know this is not true.

    This is crazy. The flood would have melted the glaciers (and floated them), not created them.

    After the flood obviously the water level would be high and go down, not rise??? this is so ridiculous it hurts. Where do you get this stuff from.

    I had to stop here because this is just an insult to the intelligence that God gave us.

    You forgot to mention a few things. After the flood God would have had to :

    Make ice at the poles look as if it were 700,000 years told to fool later generations into thinking the earth was not 6000 years old as stated in the Bible.
    Make coral reefs look 250,000 to fool people into thinking the world was much older than 6000 years.
    Put skeletons of humans in animals (as well as buildings and pottery ) all over the world to make people believe that Noah's flood did not happen
    Wipe out all evidence of a Global flood to fool people into thinking it did not happen.
    Create really old looking dinosaur bones to make people think the world was much older than 6000 years.

    and so on and so on.

    Then, this trickster God who went to a great deal of effort to provide evidence against the great flood and creation story, somehow expects the rational and intelligent humans he created to believe in something that is completely irrational.

    You keep your irrational trickster God. I prefer to believe in a rational logical God.
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Israelites were perfectly happy sacrificing humans to God for most of their history. They stopped the practice when the Persians freed them from Babylonian captivity.

    This is also when the Israelites adopted monotheism. The Persians were Zoroastrian monotheists and abhorred child sacrifice.

    The Israelites believed that Cyrus (fellow who freed he Israelites) was favored by God and so they adopted his religious custom.

    - - - Updated - - -

    According to Wan Ren there were civilizations that survived the great flood. If Wan Ren is right then the Bible is wrong.
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The answers in relation to Noah's flood were too ridiculous for words.

    Lets try something easy:


    According to Paul

    1 Timothy 2
    Is it Gods will that women not be ministers or prophets? Should women keep silent and be teachers of Gods word to men as Paul suggests ?
     
  19. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    True, if one learns about the bible strictly from apologists who go into a study with a conclusion and force that conclusion on what they teach, rather than actual scholars from rigid academic seminaries that seek truth, not justification.
    A good example is the Woman at the Well. This story does not appear in the oldest manuscripts known. Even in complete copies of the bible, the oldest ones available, and thus closest to the original autographs of scripture, the story is missing. This truth is a footnote in the Harper Collins Bible used as the standard at all of the top seminaries in the country, The Interpreters Bible that is the most widely used 12 volume bible by mainstream theologians and pastors, and in the Oxford Bible the story doesn't appear at all, as it can not be verified as being authentic.
    But I'm sure you haven't heard that.
    In order to recognize errors, you first have to be unafraid of confronting them and having them inform your faith, allowing it to evolve as truth is revealed.
    Without that, you get the many tortured explanations that have appeared on this series of threads that boggle the logical mind.
    You will never find errors, because you refuse them, and like all those that use their intellect to prove a pre-chosen supposition, you will remain stunted, drinking the milk of faith and never getting to the meat.
     
  20. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    yes:pray: knowing very well that the Catholic church has a very high regards for women. amen.
     
  21. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    The Bible does not condone barbarism, barbarism was started by men and the Bible came about to contain that, that is why up to now with or without the Bible the world is barbaric but at least with the Bible barbarism has been reduce and put under control. Early Christians have stood up against barbarism and it was there unselfish sacrifice that shape today's modern world. In fact, many would argue that Christianity has shelter us too much that we have become too liberal.

    The Bible has been use by men with evil intend and that is the problem barbarism are of men not God. Christians will stand up to those false Christians who exploit and misuse the Bible to spread evil and barbarism.

    “When Lincoln was asked if God was on the Union’s side, Lincoln’s unvarying response was that what was really important was whether they were on God’s side.”

    Faith is the most powerful weapon of all, it was faith that brought down the mighty Roman empire, it was faith that stop Attila from destroying Rome, it was faith that save Venice and Christian Europe from the mighty Muslim armies.
     
  22. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where did I say I was an atheist? I think Ive been very clear on this point actually. In fact I couldnt have been anymore crystal clear.
     
  23. dreadpiratejaymo

    dreadpiratejaymo New Member

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    Have you read the Bible? It most certainly does condone horrible things that we now realize are morally wrong.

    How do you know that the christians are not the ones using it for evil? It certainly seems like it to me.

    Jesus = God. God is all knowing. Jesus can't have faith if he is all knowing.
     
  24. WanRen

    WanRen New Member Past Donor

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    Genesis 1: 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
    5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.


    Men started to be wicked and barbaric after bad angels took wives of daughters of men.
    As I said there are good and bad Christians and they fought against each other. “When Lincoln was asked if God was on the Union’s side, Lincoln’s unvarying response was that what was really important was whether they were on God’s side.”
    God became human and He did not cheat he took all human aspects including faith.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    and you expect us to take you seriously

    :blankstare:
     
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