Paul Ryan on Syria. The art of the flip flop

The Mayor is on ignore. I have no interest in the views of hate mongers.

 

A strategy built on lies and fear? Pandering to the fear of the public after 9/11 was easy. Beware of the Smoking gun that could become a mushroom cloud. All that was missing was the music soundtrack. Well done. Genius at work And after all is said and done, they managed to poison the mind of the people of this country when it comes to any legitimate use of force. Now, people like yourself once again cringe in fear. Boo!!

And people just like you would call for his head with screams for impeachment. Nice try.

So you're saying that he doesn't need congress approval? Interesting. What happened to the constitution that you're always talking about?

So you agree that he doesn't need congressional approval. That's what you said above. So does he or doesn't he?

Poor boy. I can see it now. We all must by Freedom Muffins because the wingnuts are so upset. The faux outrage is once again on display from the right.

Cameron hasn't been damaged in the least. He's acting in accordance with the people of the UK. Your overreach is pretty amazing. Freedom Muffins...Cameron is damaged. Sounds like right wing brain damage to me.

In case you haven't noticed the entire country has contempt for Congress. Just seven percent (7%) of Likely U.S. Voters think Congress is doing a good or excellent job. A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 62% rate the legislators’ performance as poor. That's Rasmussen...the poll most used by Fox. So you talk about Obama's contempt for congress when the entire country has contempt for that body of bile. Can you come up with something more intelligent than what you've already said?

Apparently you weren't listening. It's to degrade his CW capability and make it unusable. On the other hand we can do nothing, and watch the bodies pile up. How high is too high for you? Or do you have any limit at all on CW? You do realize they'll be used now against our allies and our troops right? That's fine with you??

That would be the price we pay for congressional waffling. Who is it exactly that is calling for this long delay if not congress, a body that is totally incompetent. Yeah...lets debate this and watch the body count mount. Congress dithers and people are gassed.

As opposed to your idea which is to hand WMD to others that are going to use them against us and our allies. Nice. Brilliant. And when it happens you'll jump in line to blame Obama for them using that crap, and scream and stamp your feet and demand to know why Obama didn't stop it.

 

You really don't know your constitution as well as you'd like to think do you?

White Supremacy: As American as the Constitution.

White Supremacy and racism is foundational to America. It’s codified in our constitution.

Article I Sec. 2.(basing a state’s representation in the House on its Free population and 3/5 of all other persons)

Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Article I Sec. 9. (Barring congress from abolishing the slave trade before 180

The migration or importation of such persons as any of the states now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each person.

Article IV Sec. 2. (providing for the return of runaway slaves)

A person charged in any state with treason, felony, or other crime, who shall flee from justice, and be found in another state, shall on demand of the executive authority of the state from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the state having jurisdiction of the crime.

No person held to service or labor in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.

By design, the United States was created as a White, male dominated society. Without a doubt, not all of our founders were of this mind, however, there were enough to block any attempt to force it to live up to its stated claim that “All men are created equal”. Clearly, some were more equal than others.

So your blind worship of the Constitution is unwarranted. Montoya makes a point that you simply deny. That denial doesn't make it go away. It's a reality of our history. It was a flawed document from flawed men. Like all human beings they are fallible. Nothing infallible can be created from a fallible source. That's why they allowed for the amendment process. The First Revolution was for Independence from England. The real revolution started with the Civil War. That was the internal revolution. That's when the words All Men are Created Equal finally meant something. And even after that it took another 100 years to bring that into reality in this country. Nobody hates the country that I'm aware of. We all recognize that it's not perfect. Maybe people like you should wake up to that. Lincoln knew that. The Republican Lincoln called for a "more perfect Union"...not a perfect union. That's unattainable.

 

So you approve of Chemical Weapons? How about when they're used against us? Or a bunch of innocent people including kids. Are those kids wrapped in sheets al-qeada? How high should we stack the bodies before you decide that Chemical Weapons are not a good idea? I thought you guys were all worked up over WMD when Bush went looking for them in Iraq? Now you have no problem with them?

 

That's already going on. It's just ideological for now. The Republican Party of what was once Lincoln is now the Republican Party of Jefferson Davis and secessionists like Rick Perry. The Republican Party has become Southernized and is more closely in line with the Confederate states. Todays' Republicans are all sympathetic to the Confederacy and the racism that it stood for.

 

What a pant load of crap. They haven't even voted yet - they are on vacation. Do you even know that Congress hasn't voted? I do wish one thing was different about how this country works - I wish it was illegal for Syrians to come here.

 

Search her previous threads. She says she hates America because Obama and America took all her family money and forced her to come here as a refugee. Cheering was the response in Syria when 9-11 happened and all those thousands died in the Twin Towers.

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I am American and honestly I do not care what Europe, Africa, and South America, Asia think about how we handle our business. I don't think most Americans do.

 

The West destroyed our country, now there is going to be plenty of Syrians coming to the West! Deal with it! Sweden already allowed 20,000 Syrians to stay there.

You support the Saudis. You allow them to spread Wahhabism and Salafism. You turn a blind eye to them starting civil wars. You deal with consequences. Obama is to blame for the crisis in Syria because he demanded Assad resign even in 2011. This gave legitimacy to all the Saudi funded terror in Syria. Now you will see millions of Syrians in the West.

Do not start civil wars in other countries, do not become servants of Israelis and Saudis, and maybe then Syrians would stay in Syria, like they always did, prior to the war.

 

Why did you tell people the vote for bombing Syria already happened and post the vote scores when the vote hasn't even happened yet? And I think you know how I would "deal with" Syrians coming to USA; but it's not up to me. So you probably don't mean it when you keep asking me to deal with it. Your assertion that America is a servant to Israel is racist and offensive. You prove with those comments just how much you hate Jews and blame them for everything that happens in this world. Your posts prove you want to push the Jews into the sea. The Syrians are NOT a peaceful people. You prove that they are hateful and dangerous and should be deported from America.

There you go Adagio. Every one of this person's posts blame America for the woes of arab muslim countries, and expresses hatred for America.

 

America's most beloved president would like to share some thoughts:

"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. My understanding is that I can just let her alone." -- Abraham Lincoln

 

You can't even read. I did not say those were the votes.

"Next weeks vote in the Congress

Should Syria be attacked?

Yes - 35

No - 400
[/QUOTE]

You see the words "next weeks"?

300 congressmen already said they will vote NO.

100 others are undecided and will mostly vote NO

Rest of your post is nonsence as usual. Syrians were perfectly fine living in their country until USA decided there should be regime change. STOP MEDDLING IN OTHER COUNTRIES AFFAIRS!

 

"Human rights in Syria

The situation for human rights in Syria is considered exceptionally poor among international observers.[1][2] A state of emergency was in effect from 1963 until April 2011, giving security forces sweeping powers of arrest and detention.[2]

Syria is a Multi-party state without free elections. The authorities harass and imprison human rights activists and other critics of the government.[3] Freedom of expression, association, and assembly are strictly controlled.[2][3] Women and ethnic minorities face discrimination.[2][3] According to Human Rights Watch, President Bashar al-Assad failed to improve Syria’s human rights record in the first 10 years of his rule,[4] and Syria's human rights situation remained among the worst in the world.[5] According to Amnesty International, the government may be guilty of crimes against humanity based on "witness accounts of deaths in custody, torture and arbitrary detention," during the crackdown against the 2011 uprising.[6]"

 

What the Founding Fathers faced at their time was an incredibly difficult political dilemma which the leftists could hardly compare, nor would they have been able to make anywhere near the decisions the Founders made if in those crucial moments.

We can see it in Free Trade, in Kenyesnian Economics, etc. We already know the pitiful quality of Leftist decision making process. It's the same as our current President. "Yes, no, I don't know." All the meanwhile the left lies, cheats and steals its way to political power. And if that doesn't work, we can go Bill Ayers Weather Underground style.

 

What is our vital national interest in Syria? What is our strategy for achieving that vital national interest? How does firing a half-billion dollars worth of cruise missiles support that strategy? How will we know when our strategy has succeeded?

 

Yet Syria provides equal rights to women, minorities, ethnic minorities like Christians and Atheists. No Sharia Law in Syria. Women can dress however they want. People can consume alcohol if they want.

What do you hope to achieve by posting that nonsence? You think that is why America demanded Assad leave? Look at some of America's friends like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar. Absolutely no rights there, no political freedom , no religious rfreedom, no rights for women. Yet America is best friends with them. Obama even bows down to their King ! How nice!

 

So a civil war that kills 100,000 is not sufficiently immoral that we get involved but killing 1500 is suddenly sufficient?

 

First let's have the Article V fight in the states' legislatures.

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And that is much easier than debating him...

 

Then you should obviously be living in another country

 

Human Rights in Israel

http://www.hrw.org/middle-eastn-africa/israel-palestine

http://www.hrw.org/news/2013/08/24/israel-stop-unlawful-west-bank-home-demolitions


Israeli authorities demolished homes and property under discriminatory policies in the Israeli Negev and the West Bank, and harassed non-violent protesters and built unlawful settlements in occupied territory. Unlawful Israeli attacks in Gaza killed dozens of civilians, and the Israeli blockade, which Egypt tacitly supported, harmed Gaza’s economy.

Israeli troops appear to have used unlawful lethal force during an arrest raid in a Palestinian refugee camp that killed three Palestinians. The raid on August 26, 2013, and the response to subsequent disturbances in the camp also injured 19, including the target of the arrest, Yusuf al-Khatib, who was wanted in relation with unspecified “terrorist activities.”

Israeli forces should immediately end unlawful demolitions of Palestinian homes and other structures in Occupied Palestinian Territory. The demolitions have displaced at least 79 Palestinians since August 19, 2013. Demolitions of homes and other structures that compel Palestinians to leave their communities may amount to the forcible transfer of residents of an occupied territory, which is a war crime.

Human Rights Watch documented demolitions on August 19 in East Jerusalem that displaced 39 people, including 18 children. Israeli human rights groups and the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) documented additional demolitions in East Jerusalem and the West Bank on August 20 and 21 that destroyed the homes of 40 people, including 20 children.

“When Israeli forces routinely and repeatedly demolish homes in occupied territory without showing that it’s necessary for military operations, it appears that the only purpose is to drive families off their land, which is a war crime,” said Joe Stork, acting Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “The politics of peace talks do not make it any less unlawful for Israel to demolish Palestinians’ homes without a valid military reason.”

In one case, Israeli forces destroyed the tent in which a family of seven people was sheltering after the military demolished their home twice, OCHA reported. In another case, Israeli forces cut the road leading to the remaining home of an extended family in East Jerusalem, after demolishing their other adjoining homes in April.



The Israeli government should announce an immediate moratorium on demolitions of “illegal” homes of Bedouin citizens. The government demolishes Bedouin homes based on discriminatory laws and rules, and without respect for the Bedouins’ dignity or the country’s human rights obligations.

The government should also withdraw proposed legislation that would discriminate against Bedouin with harsh rules on land and property rights and authorize large-scale displacement of Bedouin from generations-old communities, while severely restricting their ability to appeal. Government officials have estimated that implementing the law would displace 30,000 Bedouin, while Israeli rights groups say the figure could be 40,000 or more.

“Israel has been shoving Bedouin out of their communities and into ever-shrinking space while encouraging and even helping Jewish Israelis to move in,” said Joe Stork, acting Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. “Prime Minister Netanyahu should end the appalling discrimination against Israel’s Bedouin citizens, not support legislation that enshrines it.”

According to government figures, 200,000 Bedouin live in the country’s southern Negev region, the majority in 7 government-planned townships, and several thousand more in 11 Bedouin communities that the government is in the process of “recognizing.” However, Israeli state planning documents and maps exclude 35 “unrecognized” Bedouin communities, where the government estimates that 70,000 to 90,000 people live.

Israel demolishes Bedouin homes in the Negev on the basis that they were built without permits, often in unauthorized communities. Israel has for decades refused either to legally recognize these communities or to allow their residents to gain title to ancestral land. The Israeli government has rejected or delayed discussion of proposed plans submitted by groups seeking authorization for Bedouin communities, making it impossible for residents to obtain building permits. In contrast, the government takes an active role in planning and expanding Jewish communities in the region, and has retroactively authorized construction there by Jewish citizens.

Bedouin have ancestral claims to lands on which their families have lived for generations. However, Israeli authorities do not recognize Bedouin land claims without official ownership documents, which few have. Israel claims state ownership of Negev lands that are not registered to individual owners. While Israel has frequently granted Jewish communities and individual Jewish farmers long-term leases to use “state lands,” including lands expropriated from Israeli Bedouin, it has largely refused to grant Bedouin similar use.

Human Rights Watch has long documented the Israeli authorities’ discriminatory practices toward Bedouin and the discriminatory demolition of their homes. Since March 2013 Human Rights Watch has documented demolition of 18 Bedouin homes and 11 other structures, including 8 tents where victims of previous demolitions were living.

Many of the demolitions have been in Atir, a community of about 500 people near Beer Sheva. Bedouin have lived in Atir since Israeli authorities relocated them there in 1956, but the authorities have refused to recognize the village or connect it to electricity or water networks, and plan to plant a forest there. Security forces demolished the homes of about 70 people there on May 16, and returned on May 29 and June 27 to demolish tents in which the displaced were living.

In one case, security forces demolished the home of a family with two children with disabilities without allowing their parents time to retrieve the children’s medication, hearing aids, and an oxygen canister. R., 26, said that an Israeli security official refused his and his wife’s requests for more time before their home was bulldozed and the rubble trucked away to a dump:

I tried to reason with the guy. My wife held out the form that said our kids are handicapped and asked to get some things from inside the house, but he threw it on the ground and said, “I don’t care.”

Israeli authorities contend that they are simply enforcing zoning and building codes and encourage Bedouin to purchase land and housing in seven existing government-planned Bedouin communities. Israel has allocated funding for an economic development program to benefit the Negev Bedouin, and designated Bedouin communities as among the “national priority areas” eligible for other subsidies.

Many Bedouin have rejected relocating to the townships because the government requires them to renounce land claims that they have passed down over generations. The townships, seven of the eight poorest communities in Israel, also have insufficient land for traditional livelihoods such as grazing livestock.

On June 24 the Israeli parliament approved the draft Law on the Arrangement of Bedouin Settlement in the Negev, prepared by the prime minister’s office, at its first reading. It will become law if approved at two further readings. The proposed law is intended to resolve the residency status of Bedouin in “unrecognized” communities. The law could regularize some communities that meet certain criteria, but creates administrative procedures that could fast-track demolitions in communities that do not. Currently, Israeli courts approve government requests for demolition orders against Bedouin homes individually.

Israel ratified the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights in 1991, requiring it to guarantee the right to housing. The committee responsible for interpreting the covenant has said this right means governments can carry out forced evictions only in “the most exceptional circumstances,” and then only in accordance with human rights principles requiring the government to consult with the affected individuals or communities, identify a clear public interest requiring the eviction, ensure that those affected have a meaningful opportunity to challenge the eviction, and provide appropriate compensation and adequate alternative land and housing arrangements.

International human rights law prohibits countries from discriminating against minority groups, including with regard to land and housing rights.Governments must demonstrate that any differential treatment negatively affecting a group is proportionate to a legitimate aim.

The government should fully compensate Bedouin whose homes and property it has destroyed in violation of the right to housing and non-discrimination, Human Rights Watch said. The government should allow them to return to their villages pending a final agreement with the displaced Bedouin that respects their rights under international law.

“The prime minister’s office has led the drive to push through this law that will forcibly displace thousands of Bedouin families,” Stork said. “Israel’s allies should tell the prime minister in no uncertain terms to shelve this discriminatory law.”

 

I know i lived there or a year.

I can see now why you dfend Assad, you don't seem to understand that he has violated human rights iin an extreme way according to the worlds HR Groups observations.

Nope.

More rights in those you listed than Syria.

 

Israel has a HR index of five and Syria of 0. No comparison even if it were relevant to the discussion we are having.

I draw you back to your silly comment of;

"Syrians were perfectly fine living in their country "

We both know that having one of the lowest human rights indicators in the world does not make a nation 'fine,' rather, it makes it in need of reforms.

 

If you attack government buildings, police stations and army bases in USA, the government will also treat you no better than Syrian government did to the opposition.

Assad never violated my rights. Syrian government never abused me, or my family, or my friends. Everyone knew that you support Ba'ath and you will not have any problems. That kind of dynamic suited me and most Syrians. Don't make trouble with Ba'ath and they will not harass you, take away your rights. I was satisfied with my life in Syria. The Govt provided me with free education in school and university. They also covered part of my expenses to study abroad in Russia. They found me a job in a school and paid my salary on time every month. I saved up for a long time and was able to get my own apartment. Now all that is ruined because some extremists decided they were not happy in Syria.. &$#@ them ! I hope Assad eliminates every one of those extremist bastards. Assad + Syrian Army always in my heart till the end.

Anyone who opposes Secular Syria is my personal enemy. Even if that person is my own relative. Secular Syria > everything else.

 

Reforms Yes, but not an invasion by 20,000 foreign jihadis. How do you think 20,000 jihadis will get out from Syria without force?! You think if Assad resigns and announces reforms, the foreign jihadis will say " ok now Syria is being reformed, our work here is done". It doesnt work that way. They are there to establish an Islamic caliphate. That is unacceptable to me. Jihadis are not there for reforms and democracy. They have their own agenda, and that has nothing to do with Assad or Syrian govt or Syrian army.

 

The reports were between 1963 and 2011, prior to the protests.

How do you know since you have no free press?

Well there you go. You bend over for Assad and he slips it to you gently. If you don't like being imprisoned then you are his enemy. Thank you for finally making this clear.

As with all other dictators in the region his ideas of reforms came way too little and too late. I fear you are correct and it is a darn shame, jut as it was in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia and so to be the rest of the ME.

 

If someone isn't flip flopping on the Syria issue, then they A) have a lot more information available to them than most of us, or B) came into the debate without all the information needed to take a stance, yet have a mindset that cannot be changed no matter what new information develops. I am flip flopping all over the place, so I belong to a group C) people without the required information who are guessing what is happening and therefore are likely to be on one side or the other as information and leaders' positions evolve.