As your cite points out, this has to do with one particular polio vaccine type. It is incredibly rare and could be overcome simply by giving other types of vaccines and achieving more thorough vaccination of the populace. Political resistance to vaccines can prevent ending other diseases, too.
Oral polio vaccines (the first type developed) are typically used when infection rates are high because their efficacy is superior to inactivated ones. Once infection rates are low, inactivated are sufficient to provide herd immunity. Neither vaccine is perfect but both excel in different situations. I’m not sure, but everyone may have stopped orals at this point. Infection rates are low enough everywhere it makes sense. As soon as vaccine induced cases exceed wild cases it’s time to switch. Covid reporting and discussions confused a lot of people on the difference between eradication and herd immunity. Eradication is nearly impossible for pathogens capable of producing high rates of asymptomatic infections. Smallpox would likely still be a very rare disease, not eradicated, if it didn’t have an essentially zero asymptomatic infection rate. If you notice the pull quote I provided said there is poliovirus in sewage in numerous places. It’s coming from somewhere, and not just the one case obviously. That case wasn’t driving all over the place crapping in different sewage systems. There are numerous infected individuals seeding sewage with poliovirus. They just don’t know they have it. Political resistance to many disease control methods can and does prevent ending many diseases. Not just vaccines.
Of course, one also have to recognize the major differences between the two diseases. For example, like with Ebola, the actual vector for COVID is unknown. It is strongly suspected to be bats, but that is not absolutely proven as of yet. And because it is a virus that crosses species, that tends to make it highly capable of mutating, having double the chances as it can mutate in either the host species or humans. Now here is the interesting thing about Polio. It actually has no actual animal or insect vector. It is a human only disease, and the disease reservoir is not another species like fleas or rodents, but humans themselves. In third world countries it is believed that the fly was the most common vector, but indirectly. It would land on feces from an infected person, then land on another or their food and transfer the virus through simple touch. Not a bite or other traditional insect vector transmission like from a mosquito. And COVID was actually not that deadly of a disease. The actual mortality rates are roughly on par with the Flu. However, just like the Spanish Flu a century ago the damned thing spread like wildfire because it was easy to transmit from person to person. The actual "death rates" had not a damned thing to do with the actual "mortality", but because it was so infectious that the number of infections was higher than anything we had seen in over a century.
Yes Covid is caused by a zoonotic virus, meaning it can infect humans and another/other animal species as well. And even though there are polioviruses that are species specific to other primates, etc., the types that infect humans have never been observed to infect any other species. Thus polio in humans is not a zoonotic disease. My brief mention of Covid in this context was not to compare Covid to any other disease. Instead it was to point out the often misleading information on herd immunity during the pandemic led to great misunderstanding by the public as to the differences between herd immunity and eradication. For example, I’ve had the same people tell me at one point natural immunity from surviving Covid could never produce even partial herd immunity, but say in another thread vaccination would eradicate SARS-CoV-2. When I pointed out there has been poliovirus found in several sewage systems in New York it was to correct that kind of confusion. Polio hasn’t been eradicated in New York even though you can find journalists etc. who will make that claim. There is just enough herd immunity that we aren’t seeing symptomatic cases. Well, except for the vaccine induced case in my link. And yes, Covid has a very low infection fatality rate that will continue to go lower over time. It’s a dang good thing too, because there was never any serious interest by public health entities in the US to prevent infection or advise people on how to prepare themselves to avoid poor outcomes when infection inevitably happened.
There is also a big difference, in that a virus like SARS/MERS/COVID generally mutate frequently, and in ways that mask it from immune systems. This is why there are so many variants running around, and simply because somebody has contracted one, that does not guarantee immunity for other variants. Well, most of the "suggestions" given during COVID were damned near worthless. Like the face masks, that was only a panacea which in reality did nothing to prevent the spread. And the best solution from previous pandemics like quarantine was never brought up. And it showed to me how utterly unprepared we are as a nation, and that eventually a deadly pandemic will break out, and almost nothing will be done to stop it.
Yeppers. What’s most bizarre is the people who were the most disturbed about getting Covid are the ones happy with the public health blunders and lies. Yes, as a nation we are unprepared and always will be. That’s why I always encourage everyone to prepare themselves. Having the ability to quarantine infected and potentially infected individuals and groups is key. Few have the ability to impose quarantine on others, but everyone has the option of developing that ability. If the above two sentences don’t make sense to anyone, then they need to do some study and critical thinking on the subject. Because in the high infection fatality rate scenario that’s the only path to survival—having the ability to impose quarantine on people with the potential to infect you.
Actually, any city, county, or state health office as well as a judge can do that. The laws are still on the books, and it is perfectly legal. It is simply never done anymore for some strange reason. That is why we had people with active infections out in public the same day they were diagnosed, and spreading it to others. The officials lacked the will to do their damned jobs. And people simply ignored being told to stay at home, and acted like everything was fine.
Legality isn’t what I’m talking about. The government can’t quarantine people because it can’t provide the services necessary to keep people alive/satisfied at home. Most Americans can’t go two days without patronizing a retailer or an entertainment/restaurant venue. Also, enforcement would require physical violence on a scale that would be unsustainable for a variety of reasons. The only effective quarantine option in modern America is what I practiced through parts of the pandemic. I prepared myself years ago to have the ability to quarantine every potentially infected American. It worked. I was never exposed to Covid until I consciously chose to be. It was one of the best decisions I ever made. No stress during the pandemic from concerns of infection or infecting my immune suppressed in laws. No worries about Karens or pointless regulations. The government can’t protect you and wouldn’t if they could. Your fellow Americans aren’t prepared or inclined to protect you. Preparing yourself to have the ability to quarantine them all is the best approach.
Sure they can. One can have everything delivered to the home now, as it was a hundred years ago. There are dozens of home delivery services that are not even tied to individual companies like they once were. I am old enough to remember when home delivery of things like milk, diapers, medications, food, and much else was provided by such companies. Where drivers drove specific routes do deliver such things daily. That largely ended in the 1980s, but that was still a common thing when I was younger. Today, we have a thousand and one companies via the Internet that do the same thing for many companies. Call up, place an order, and it will be delivered right to your door. Uber Eats, Grubhub, and dozens more can bring you anything from cotton swabs and batteries to groceries and just about anything else. It is not the government's job to "provide services". It was not done a hundred years ago, it should not be done now. And it is especially not their job to "keep people satisfied". Enforcement requires physical violence? Well, if somebody is so resistant to quarantine that they are willing to fight, then they should spend time in jail. Individuals that are that self-centered and uncaring about others probably should be removed from the general population for the protection of others.
Infrastructure does not exist to deliver everything to everyone. Where I live Amazon shipping went from 2-5 day (prime 2 day here was never 2 day) to up to two weeks. Wal-mart delivery exists for some products but same thing—shipping times increased to weeks not days. That’s with massive amounts of people still regularly shopping at retailers like Wal-mart brick and mortar locations. One major difference between now and 100 years ago is that 100 years ago a large percentage of the population were either self sufficient or a large percentage self sufficient. Today a very, very few are even partially self sufficient. Then of course there is the problem of all those people providing delivery services and filling orders. They are “essential” workers but that doesn’t keep them from passing infections around amongst themselves and then taken it home to their families. But that’s not even the biggest problem. The biggest problem is people aren’t mentally prepared to be quarantined even if their needs could be met. People now don’t just “need” cornbread and beans at home. They “need” coffee from Starbucks every morning and dinner out three times a week. Remember the silly outdoor dining idea where a lot of places ended up with tents full of patrons? Imagine the mental health status of a population not allowed to go out to and get chocolate milk and pop tarts or Tequila and Jack. Those were simpler times. Seventy percent of the population wasn’t on prescription drugs. The creamery delivered 4-5 products. Now it would be hundreds. Sure. And they rely on just a handful of delivery services. Have you heard the stories about how overworked many delivery drivers were/are? Here’s a sample. https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2021/mar/11/amazon-delivery-drivers-bathroom-breaks-unions And again, that’s with a large portion of folks still shopping a lot at brick and mortar. Amen brother! But that is what entitled Americans would expect if quarantine was actually implemented by government. Well you would end up with very full jails. With very high infection rates within those jails. Requiring a lot of medical care. Yes, violence is the only way to enforce state mandated quarantine. The public health officials whose job it is to protect the health of the general population intentionally took actions they knew would result in death and disease and refrained from taking actions they knew could prevent death and disease. If they were willing to take direct actions known to do harm, how can we expect the average Joe to be caring about others? I wish it wasn’t like that, but Covid demonstrated it to be true.
Can you identify the state mandated quarantine you object to? I know of quarantines of world travelers - both coming and going, for example. I wish they had done that earlier and way more completely, as the COVID the USA got came from Europe and then spread from the Eastern airports to the rest of the USA. Also, can you identify what action you wanted the feds to take in order to save lives, but wasn't taken? Are you thinking of the failure to require vaccination and the absence of emphasis on save or limited travel in the US?
You are confusing "centralized delivery" with that from the local area. GH and all the others work delivering items from and to the local area. And Walmart and most Amazon packages are not delivered by the company, but by third parties. Like UPS. And once again, there is from a remote warehouse. I can guarantee that if it is 2 weeks, they themselves do not actually have the item, they are getting it from yet somebody else. All I am seeing is silly excuses as to why you seem to believe there should be no quarantines. So great, you whine that the government can't do anything, then shoot down the thing that is in their power to do. And believing huge numbers will attack others if ordered into quarantine. Sounds like you are against it and endorse violence if it is used.
Sure. If you can quote me ever objecting to one! Yep. Control of our borders is one legitimate duty of our government according to the Constitution. And they shirked their duty. Sure I’ll share a couple things. In the spring of 2020 public health entities should have started a campaign to educate the public on the effects of lifestyle on infection risk, risk of poor outcomes after infection, and effects of lifestyle on vaccine efficacy. By mid 2021 they should have been advising people that peer reviewed research had revealed such simple things as an extra hour of sleep, moderate exercise, and extra servings of vegetables were highly effective at reducing infection rates and poor outcomes after infection. The feds should not have started out anti mask early in the pandemic. Around the first of January 2021 the fed should have at the very least stopped recommending against n95 quality masks. They should have begun buying them for high risk individuals by March 2021 or sooner. They never did purchase n95 type masks for high risk individuals as was done in Europe. While European public health entities were passing out free quality masks our CDC, hospitals, NIH, university research hospitals, etc. were actively discouraging the use of such masks. Even though domestic producers of these masks were laying off workers, idling factories, stockpiling hundreds of millions of masks, and facing bankruptcy because the fed was telling Amazon and other retailers not to sell the masks to the public. The fed should have given emergency use authorization to monoclonal antibodies to be used as passive vaccines for immunocompromised individuals around the same time mRNA and viral vector vaccines were approved. Not allowing passive vaccination of cancer patients etc. that couldn’t mount an immune response to the mRNA and vector vaccines cost numerous lives and many hospitalizations that could have been easily avoided. Monoclonal antibodies that were on hospital shelves at the time omicron was moving into the US should not have had their EUA pulled until omicron was the primary variant in the country. Many people with delta variant infection were denied monoclonal antibodies that would have been very effective at reducing death and hospitalization at that time. The fed should have advised the older generations how effective ONE moderate exercise session following vaccination is at inducing higher levels of antibody production from vaccination. The fed should have provided correct information to the public on where masking was most likely to prevent infection. I could go on…. No. I’m opposed to mandatory vaccination. Vehemently opposed. Unless you are going to mandate dieting etc. it’s illogical. Never mind it violates the my body my choice doctrine.
I don’t care how many warehouses there are or third party delivery outfits. Supplying the country with delivery is not physically possible. Period. LOL. Quarantine is far and away the best way to handle infectious disease. Why do you think I’m against them? I quarantined thousands of people for long periods. Why would I do that if I opposed quarantine? I said early on if people didn’t understand two sentences of that post they needed to study and think. Not argue on the internet. Quarantine is MUCH more than government forcing someone to stay in their house etc. I quarantined innumerable potentially infected individuals without any violence or threat of violence. The vast majority didn’t even know they were being quarantined! I loathe violence. That’s why I’m not a fan of the state by and large. They get violent is someone smokes a weed for goodness sake. Or drives around with a dried out plant in their car. Don’t talk to me about violence! I urge you to study up on what quarantine is and think about how you can use this VERY important tenet of epidemiology to your advantage. You don’t need to beg government to force you and others into behaviors. You have the power if you are motivated enough to develop and use it.
Aren't you just demonstrating that individuals can not solve problems such as COVID on their own? You may have done amazing work. But, you can't describe how it defended America against the attack of COVID.
Our US policy on masks, or anything else is decided at the top level and NOT by the CDC or Dr. Fauci. Science does NOT make policy decisions. Policy is a government role, and one can hope that policy makers listen to various sources - science, economists, affected industries, other nations that impact our policy, etc. The CDC and others did amazing work in communicating the science, as did world sources. These were strongly opposed by political forces through the media. Yes. There is NO method of defending against COVID that has not had a significant population opposed to its use. And, every one of them thinks they are "right". The result is major American dysfunction - a clear demonstration of our vulnerability.
Quite the opposite. I was never in “danger” of exposure to or contracting Covid until I made the conscious intentional choice to be. And that freedom and safety was a direct result of things I did to prepare for something like Covid years in advance. All on my own—well my wife and I of course. She was a big part of it. But no help from government or healthcare experts or anything like that. No government spending involved. No electing “the right people”. Every preparation that allowed me to choose complete avoidance of exposure came from the realization years ago that being protected from a pandemic can ONLY occur if you aren’t dependent on others—especially government. You make it sound like a B grade sci-fi movie— The Attack of Covid. Working to protect America from Covid would have been a fool’s errand. I’m no fool. I prepared myself to be able to protect myself and my family. Then my “work” was to educate individuals on how to protect themselves. I’m glad you think I did amazing work! I can’t protect you. I can’t protect America. But if you had followed the advice of my posts starting in April of 2020 your chances of infection could have been near zero. And your chance of poor outcomes if infected would have been reduced around the same amount as the benefit from vaccination. The bonus is my advice would have protected you for nearly a year before vaccination was available and if followed would have substantially increased the efficacy of vaccination when you did have it available. Again, I can’t protect you. But I can teach you how to protect yourself. That’s my only “work”.
The top level? Who? Some shadow organization? The CDC certainly formulated policy. You can go online and read their procedures for policy formation. Congress can implement policy. The executive branch can directly. It is a mess but better than having no checks and balances. For example, retailers were prohibited from selling N95 masks on order of the CDC. Eventually enough manufacturers complained to the White House that Biden eventually circumvented the CDC policy and loosened restrictions a bit on sales. I agree it would be nice if government set policy based on science when it comes to public health. Because if they don’t people will die. Biology doesn’t care about your party tribalism or opinions or economic desires. If you don’t follow the science when it comes to infectious disease nothing else matters. No. The CDC was a dumpster fire. They kept quality masks that were readily available from citizens. They recommended and supported mandating masking in places infection risk was low but never really suggested masking where infection risk was high. A great deal of what the CDC and people like Fauci communicated was directly opposed to known science. The overwhelming majority of media and politicians were completely unaware of the most egregious actions by public health entities. Most “political forces” don’t have enough knowledge of science (virology, epidemiology etc.) to understand what’s going on. Yes. The above actions by the Fed are shameful. Cost many, many lives unnecessarily. Really? Who’s opposed to my method? What we “think” should not enter the equation. Only what has overwhelming supporting evidence produced through application of the scientific method. That’s why I can teach you to protect yourself—because nothing I teach is what I think is right. I only teach what is verifiably correct through examination of peer reviewed studies and meta analysis of peer reviewed studies. Yes, if you are dependent on government you are very vulnerable. That vulnerability can be decreased substantially by taking responsibility for your own safety.
Once more, the CDC and Dr. Fauci are ADVISORY. They do science. They project policy decided by others. They are NOT authorized to make policy.
Never said it was. All I’ve pointed out is if you are concerned about being protected from infectious diseases/pandemics I can help you. Government can’t.
LOL. Your opinion is noted. Let’s see what the CDC themselves say about policy. Remember policies of the CDC relating to masking guidelines et.? I find your claims fascinating. Who do you think wrote policy on masking guidelines published by the CDC? Trump and Biden? Did congress pass a law? What about quarantine policy for the cruise ship passengers? Did Trump or Nancy Pelosi decide on how to handle them? Or was it your so-far unidentified shadow organization? What is your evidence that the CDC/NIH/HHS (whatever label you want to use) didn’t formulate those policies?
I'm far more concerned about protecting America. And, government can certainly make a significant difference with that.
These were all affected by the presidency and his advisors. There were policies the CDC and others wanted, but were not enacted. Remember that the office of the president actually inserted documents in the CDC document stream without any notification to the CDC that they were doing so and without having the CDC vet those docs.
