Police kill double whites over blacks

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...un/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

Strange that a UK paper is keeping count, this is one of the better DBs I could find.

There have been various threads about black deaths by cops, and brutality, but this year 298 white people have been killed by cops, where 148 black people have been killed by cops. It shows that double the amount of whites are killed by cops than blacks.

To me this discounts a lot of arguments, but leaves the possible argument of brutality. Certainly these figures don't point to brutality against blacks at all; in fact all the white deaths could have been in a similar brutal manner; it's only cell phone footage that helps point the finger of "brutality", but not having footage of white deaths doesn't mean that similar force isn't used in white deaths.

I'm curious as to what legit reasons the black lives matters movement can run with, in light of statistics on deaths alone.

 

Well as far as those figures go, the proportion is more significant. A greater proportion of black Americans have been killed by police because the black population is only around 13% while around 25% of the people killed by police are black (by these figures). The Guardian page at least shows both raw numbers and proportions (which marks a very clear distinction, not only for blacks but also Native Americans).

Simple numbers like this aren’t enough to reach a conclusion either way. There are a whole load of factors that will influence them in various ways and they don’t differentiate between legitimate killings (e.g. self-defence), accidents and incidental deaths. Anyone using statistics like this to support any narrative about police attitudes and actions towards black people are either being ignorant or wilfully dishonest.

 

Agreed.

Any numbers that don't adjust for population size are totally irrelevant. That being said, blacks are overwhelmingly more likely to commit violent crimes than whites, adjusting for population size.

There is no doubt in my mind that the majority of blacks, or whites, killed by cops is justified.

 

Want to go with "stats" now do you? How about the stat that black males make up 6% of the US population but commit 40% of the crime in NYC alone? But hey, for being only killed 25% of the total numbers of cop deaths while committing 40% of the crime, I'd say they are winning in the numbers game. How about the fact that 18 cops are killed by blacks for every black killed by a cop? Or how about how whites are far more likely to be killed by blacks than blacks by whites? If you really look at the numbers, and want to believe them, you have zero legs to stand on in favor for BLM.

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Hell, even without adjusting for population size. 6% of the population (black males) commit 40% of the violent crimes in America.

 

That would be proof of something except for the fact that blacks are 6% of the population. So if all factors were equal cops should kill about 16 whites for every black they kill.

Thanks for proving the exact opposite of what you were trying to,prove.

 

Preaching to the choir! I don't know how these absurdly high crime stats don't get more attention, but the media does a fine job trying to ignore it.

 

Do you really believe that the majority of those blacks being killed by cops are innocent? In the majority of cases, those guys are putting themselves in that position. I know you guys like to claim it's all racism, but don't you think there might just be a connection between their absurdly high crime stats and their tendency to be killed by police?

 

So Even accepting your assumption that committing a violent crime justifies being killed then there should be 2.5 whites killed for every black. So a two to one ratio still proves prejudice

 

So what factors (proven factors) surrounding black killings (that are not used over whites) should be examined?

 

Of course there is a correlation but even that doesn't explain the statistics. Makes them look less damning but still doesn't explain the discrepancy.

 

The numbers don't have to fall perfectly in line. Blacks don't act the same as other groups do around police. I can tell you from personal experience that they are a lot rowdier than other groups--ask anyone who has ever been incarcerated, and they will tell you all about how the blacks in there behave.

I'm sure prejudice has something to do with it, but it is not the primary reason they are being killed, just as racism isn't the primary reason blacks are killing each other. You guys can keep trying to blame white people for all the problems in the black community, and things will continue to suck for them, or you can acknowledge the reality and have a small chance of actually doing something about it--your choice. Continuing to blame whites who have nothing to do with it is only pissing people off and further dividing the country.

 

I agree, bad cops don't only be bad to blacks, they are bad to everyone....

 

LOL, what do you think I was trying to "prove"? I was asking what factors are involved for the Black Lives Matter in light of these figures, and start a discussion.

The 6% doesn't indicate that blacks are being targetted at all. 608 people have been killed this year and we are visually dividing them by color, but that's not necessary. We are only looking at color because of things like Black Lives Matter.

But even if we do look at 6% population that skews the figures, what about committed by race? Such as http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/soci.../2015/12/15-guns-race-different-worlds-reeves If gun crime is being committed by more black, then there is going to be a response to those committing the gun crime, which in turn will result in those people being added to the statistics.

None of this excuses unnecessary killing people of any color.

 

Cops deliberately murdering black men is just another Big Lie from the left. They thrive on the victim mentality.

This morning ABC had a panel of mothers of black men killed by cops. One of them was the mother of Michael Brown - the Ferguson "gentle giant" of "hands up, don't shoot" fame.

Pathetic.

 

I agree that a cop would probably act more aggressively toward a black guy than a white guy. All things being equal, a white cop would probably shoot a black guy more readily than a white person, but, as I've said before, when you subconsciously have all of these facts about black crime and culture floating around your head (not to mention direct experience), it makes sense that a cop would be more wary around black offenders. You would be dumb not to form stereotypes about potentially dangerous situations.

 

I'm not convinced that the 608 deaths this year are also due to bad cops. There are bad guys everywhere, and bad guys get shot by cops.
Of course, I'd concur that doesn't apply to 100% of the cases.

 

I didn't say it justifies, but it does back up the numbers of blacks resisting arrest 10x more than whites. Resisting arrest and fighting with cop is usually why people get shot and killed by cops. Dylann Roof committed a horrendous violent crime, but he didn't resist arrest so he was taken into custody instead of killed.

 

With the numbers I showed you, they explain that blacks have more interactions with cops, therefore would stand to be near the same death rate as whites. But whites don't even commit 50% of the crime, so have less interactions with cops, but are still killed twice as much. This isn't common core math, its pretty straight forward.

 

Actually, black cops shoot blacks more than white cops, and no distinction when it comes to white people being shot. White cops are actually scared of shooting black criminals because of the negative press they may receive.

 

Providing that the interaction is due to crime, rather than cops approaching, then this seems fair.

 

I tend to doubt the accuracy of "crowdsourced" information but what this does prove is black people are killed by police at a rate far greater than their population would justify.

"The Counted is a project by the Guardian – and you – working to count the number of people killed by police and other law enforcement agencies in the United States throughout 2015 and 2016, to monitor their demographics and to tell the stories of how they died.
The database will combine Guardian reporting with verified crowdsourced information to build a more comprehensive record of such fatalities. The Counted is the most thorough public accounting for deadly use of force in the US, but it will operate as an imperfect work in progress – and will be updated by Guardian reporters and interactive journalists as frequently and as promptly as possible."

 

Well, "interactions" is anything from giving a statement, traffic violation, calling for help, being arrested etc. Most of the crime blacks commit are against other blacks. So it would still stand to reason that blacks are taking up more of a cops time with interactions that don't involve the perpetrator of a crime.

 

Erm, no. I made a very specific argument against just going with these kind of statistics, especially single selected and managed statistics designed to fit a predetermined answer.

“Simple numbers like this aren’t enough to reach a conclusion either way.”

 

And the numbers of crimes black males commit far exceeds a rate that their population can justify. Cops don't go hunting down blacks, they look for criminals. Criminals happen to be black males 40% of the time. This is more than whites all together. So to have whites killed twice as much as blacks when they interact with cops less times and resist arrest 10% of the time compared to blacks, proves that blacks are handled with kid gloves by cops compared to whites.

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Ok, so I gave you a whole host of numbers that would give you a better way of figuring out a conclusion. Do you dismiss my numbers cause I am not the op?

 

Yet another example of what is really happening--black offenders are more dangerous and cops are responding accordingly.