Politics Weekly: National Healthcare

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by idealist, May 1, 2011.

  1. idealist

    idealist New Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Inspired by a distant friend, I am encouraged to start the Politics Weekly. Every Sunday of a week, I will post a new topic to discuss.

    Please feel free to argue, defend, contribute to any points. Please feel free to comment, question, opinion.

    Tonight's debate is the national healthcare, with a special focus on the United States.

    The American healthcare stands out as a unique institution. Namely, the United States is the only rich democracy that does not cover everyone. In fact, at least 46 million Americans are not covered by insurance, compare to less than 5% in Germany, France, Japan, U.K., etc. (The statistics in Europe is actually less than 5%). Yet ironically, the U.S. healthcare is the most expensive. About 17 percent of the U.S. GDP funds its healthcare. (Compare to 8% in Japan, 11% in Germany, 10% in France, whose healthcare ranks 1st in the World Health Organization’s (WHO) ranking). Despite the expense, even covered Americans face the danger of being dropped by their insurance after being diagnosed with cancer, or spending months fighting with insurance company for the payment of the MRI scan, etc. In France and Germany, for instance, it is illegal for insurance to refuse coverage.

    In simple words: America pays more for its healthcare but Americans are getting less.

    The debate tonight is: what accounts for the difference?

    Scholars both domestic and aboard have contributed numerous theories, including the cultural theory, the interests theory, and the institution theory.

    Culture:
    U.S. has a culture of individualism and minimal government involvement. It emphasizes on the achievement (or not achieving but merely dreaming) the American Dream. The institution started when founding fathers decided that this nation will commit to the defense of minority rights.

    While culture theory may indeed offer some insights to why national healthcare did not develop, it does not account for some of the most “socialistic” aspect of American politics and society. The healthcare for veterans, or the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, represents one of the purest and socialistic “Beveridge Model” (the model used in the U.K.), where both the payer and provider is the government.

    Interests
    This theory argues that interests groups (the private medical providers, insurance companies, and rich conservatives) lobby against national healthcare. Based on this logic, US. does not have universal coverage because of strong opposition. Taking the reverse, a country that has universal coverage probably did not face a strong opposition. True? False! In fact, all democracies faced opposition before achieving universal coverage. Even today, doctors in Germany march out on strikes for a raise (In March 2006, tens of thousands of medical providers demonstrated against Merkel’s healthcare reform).

    Plus, U.S. passed reforms like Medicaid and Medicare under the same oppositions. So this theory begs the question why did some legislation overcome opposition while others did not.

    Institution
    The American political institution also reflects its idiosyncrasies. Those of us well versed in history know that America has attempted healthcare numerous times. Many to no avail. FDR dropped healthcare after when he deemed as a necessary sacrifice to ensure the success of the New Deal (to avoid antagonizing more committee chairs). Truman, campaigning on the grounds of national healthcare and winning the Democrats 263 seats in house (making it the majority), again failed (despite 82% of the public supported some form of healthcare). Why? Due to American's unique political system, power was given to committee chairmen, who were chosen based on their seniority. While such allowed the Congress to check on the executive power, it also created, in 1949, a group of Dixiecrats who, disagreeing with Truman's social issues, blocked all of his legislative initiatives.

    Healthcare once again failed.

    Then, the 1950s, the era of massive mobilization of the American Medicine Association's attempt to tarnish the idea that a national healthcare is "socialized medicine."

    The rest is history.

    America has time after time failed to produce a universal care that is fundamental to a democracy (as mentioned before, every single rich democracies have universal coverage).

    Tonight's debate: national healthcare. Please feel free to defend, challenge, or contribute. Of course, if the question "Is healthcare a moral obligation?" is raised, I will storm you down with arguments. If one does not have the right to life, does one have any rights at all?
    (*)

    If any statistics or points are doubted, privately contact me and I will guide you to the source.
     
  2. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Health care costs gonna go up in spite of Obamacare...
    :fart:
    Healthcare costs rose while insurance coverage fell, studies show
    September 8, 2011 Reporting from Washington — The changes have left nearly half the working-age population without enough protection from illness. Altogether, 44% of American adults were either uninsured or underinsured last year, according to the Commonwealth Fund.
     
  3. IrishLefty

    IrishLefty New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Universal Health Care is a must for any modern industrialized state.
     
  4. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Coverage under Obamacare plateaus...
    :wink:
    Survey: US Progress on Health Insurance Stalled in 2015
    January 07, 2016 | WASHINGTON — Going into President Barack Obama's last year in office, progress has stalled on reducing the number of uninsured Americans under his signature health care law, according to a major survey out Thursday.
     
  5. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Republicans come out with their version of healthcare...
    :wink:
    House Republicans unveil healthcare alternative to Obamacare
    Wed Jun 22, 2016 | WASHINGTON - Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives unveiled an alternative plan to overhaul the nation's healthcare system on Wednesday, slamming Obamacare even as they aimed to keep some of its more popular provisions.
     
  6. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    94,819
    Likes Received:
    15,788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Dementia victims 'have twice the risk of dying in hospital while a third are not properly diagnosed by staff'

    University professor, 37, dies from lung cancer after string of doctors dismissed symptoms as 'anxiety and depression'

    Premature twins died after being given 10 times too much morphine, nursing tribunal hears

    Failings in NHS cost 30,000 lives every year

    Inspections highlight 'barbaric' home care failings

    NHS watchdog to tackle malnutrition in hospitals

    Elderly warned of growing isolation as face-to-face care cut

    Family of RAF's finest who shot V1 rockets out the sky forced to sell medals to pay for care home

    Closing the Independent Living Fund shows how low the government will go

    Elderly patients diagnosed with 'acopia' - a disease that does not exist

    Mid-Staffs scandal: Sir David Nicholson could face corporate manslaughter and misconduct charges

    Growing fears of Bolton hospital death rate 'cover up'

    Patients 'are still in danger from nurses who can't speak English' say MPs, as they call for urgent action

    Older diabetics are suffering 'needless' amputations and blindness because they get the worst care

    Pensioner placed on Liverpool Care Pathway WITHOUT family's permission dies after spending eight days without food or water

    ‘Basic errors in care cause kidney deaths’

    Choosing a GP means gambling with your life – this must stop

    Seventeen NHS hospitals have dangerously low numbers of nurses

    Hospital patients won’t complain for fear of retribution

    New avoidable-deaths scandal to put more pressure on NHS chief

    Nurse linked to the death of premature twins killed by '10 times too much morphine' is allowed to keep working

    NHS neglect: elderly patients ‘denied help with food’

    Hip fracture patients suffering 'indefensible postcode lottery'

    Snap inspections expose scandal of 'institutionalised abuse' in care homes and hospitals

    Children's lives are being put at risk by a 'chronic shortage' of hospital doctors on weekends and evenings

    Hospital that left patients lying in soiled sheets and shivering with cold is given a stark warning to improve by health watchdog

    Mother-of-three dies of meningitis just five days after being admitted to hospital with EARACHE

    A&E patients being forced to wait in ambulances for up to eight hours because of lack of beds

    An unprecedented crisis is approaching, say the health service’s most senior figures

    Number of patients being tied up and locked in rooms by care staff DOUBLES as MPs issue warning about hospital abuse

    Thousands dying of thirst on NHS: Watchdog forced to issue guidelines on giving patients water

    Woman who was sterilised is horrified to discover metal surgical clip had travelled from her groin to her CHEST

    'My daughter was sent home from A&E to die of croup': Grieving mother to sue hospital after one-year-old's death

    The little girl who could have been saved from meningitis - by jab NHS refuses to fund

    Concerns over nursery worker who raped child 'were not investigated'

    GPs predict longer waiting times - survey

    NHS waiting lists are longest in five years

    Pensioner died in agony after developing a horrific bedsore in hospital which left her spine exposed

    Grandmother, 55, died from cervical cancer after her GP dismissed her symptoms as the MENOPAUSE

    Children left disabled by meningitis after GPs failed to diagnose them are paid £28m in compensation

    Girl, two, 'died after doctors failed to talk to each other about MRI scan that showed she had water on the brain'

    Surge in elderly abuse and neglect claims

    'I would worry if my family was taken to hospital at weekends': NHS boss admits he is concerned about staffing levels

    How GPs are paid £50 bonus to put elderly on 'death lists'

    Christian missionary, 49, died of heart failure and brain damage after waiting more than an HOUR for ambulance to arrive

    'You condemned my sweetheart to death'

    Doctors, nurses and managers to face five years in jail if they neglect patients

    Dehydration and malnutrition led to 2,162 deaths in care since 2003

    Jeremy Hunt says 32 hospitals are under investigation over links to claims of sexual abuse by presenter

    Colchester hospital faces criminal investigation over waiting list figures

    Brain haemorrhage patients face unnecessary delays, study finds

    Four hospitals understaffed, says NHS watchdog

    Royal College of Nursing claims that as many as one in six nursing posts at some NHS hospitals are lying vacant

    Thousands of seriously ill NHS patients reportedly denied drugs


    ‘Postcode lottery’ denies patients access to treatment despite obesity crisis, surgeons warn

    Midwives and patients warn of ‘devastating’ staff shortages

    'He loved the NHS, but it let him down': Councillor, 78, died after waiting 15 months for triple bypass and a new heart valve

    'Our son died because he dropped off the appointments list': Parent's heartbreak after crucial scan for boy, 3, was missed

    Scandal-hit Mid-Staffs NHS Trust to be broken up after hundreds died as a result of appalling care

    The hospital blunders that allowed a new mother to die

    Heart failure cases do not get specialist care, doctors warn

    Man mistakenly given vasectomy instead of minor procedure

    Transplant patient wins payout over kidney from donor with cancer

    Essex care home worker arrested on suspicion of assaulting elderly resident

    'Young people DO get bowel cancer, so why is it so hard to get a diagnosis?' One new mother's terrifying story of being fobbed off with post-natal depression - and how it nearly killed her

    Victory for widow awarded £50,000 in damages after GP misdiagnosed her husband's deadly bowel cancer as PILES

    NHS patients not treated fast enough, say MSPs

    NHS patients in uproar over 'incompetent' drug delivery service

    Cancer waiting time figures reveal first breach of target

    Mother-of-five, 46, died from breast cancer after being misdiagnosed with TENNIS ELBOW for two years

    'My baby died of whooping cough after doctors sent him home three times': Mother's devastation at death of baby boy

    Breast cancer victims ‘left in needless pain’: Terminally ill failed by care system

    The British mum killed by a 'drunk' doctor in C-section blunder: Devastated partner says he is 'going to let justice do its job'

    Yet ANOTHER NHS horror story from Wales: Dying elderly cancer patient left 'screaming in pain' on a trolley in A&E for nine hours

    Great-grandmother, 89, left lying on pavement in the rain for two hours because of 'high demand' for ambulances

    Grandmother had six months of gruelling chemotherapy only to discover she NEVER had terminal liver cancer

    Twinkle in my eye turned out to be cancer: When former Hull City chairman Paul Duffen had sparks in his vision, GPs diagnosed a sinus problem. The truth was more sinister...

    Mother left brain damaged and needing 24-hour care after doctors missed signs of deadly infection wins six-figure payout

    Mum called NHS 111 helpline 23 times before death

    'Insufficient' Government funding threatens NHS's ability to provide universally safe maternity care, says MPs

    Maisha Najeeb: Girl to receive multimillion-pound payout from hospital after accidental injection of glue into brain

    More than 11,000 lives could have been saved if heart attack care in Britain matched that in Sweden

    Waiting times at five-year high in British National Health Service

    Are five-hour waits for ambulances the sad state of our healthcare system?

    'Insufficient' Government funding threatens NHS's ability to provide universally safe maternity care, says MPs

    Data reveals six NHS trusts with 'persistently' high death rates

    Maisha Najeeb: Girl to receive multimillion-pound payout from hospital after accidental injection of glue into brain


    More than 11,000 lives could have been saved if heart attack care in Britain matched that in Sweden


    Thousands of seriously ill NHS patients reportedly denied drugs

    Four and a half hour wait for ill 81-year-old

    Pensioner with broken hip waited TWO HOURS for ambulance

    Schoolboy with back pain left lying in field for TWO HOURS

    Woman with serious illness told of EIGHT HOUR wait to see doctor

    Concussed horse rider waited FOUR HOURS for ambulance

    Crashed biker waits nearly 90 mins for ambulance

    Yet ANOTHER NHS horror story from Wales: Dying elderly cancer patient left 'screaming in pain' on a trolley in A&E for nine hours

    Heart-attack victims forced to wait FOUR hours for ambulances

    'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

    NHS mental health care in crisis: 'There is no hope for people like me'

    NHS surgery horror stories revealed

    Britain’s Single-Payer Horror Show: Report Details NHS Body Count

    HOSPITAL patients were left unwashed for up to a MONTH by uncaring nurses — as bosses cut staff and slashed costs, an inquiry revealed yesterday.

    Hospital horror: Coatbridge couple slam NHS chiefs after 'botched surgery'

    cont....
     
  7. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    94,819
    Likes Received:
    15,788
    Trophy Points:
    113
  8. Marcotic

    Marcotic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,883
    Likes Received:
    558
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So then you believe Obama Care is better then NHS?
     
  9. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    94,819
    Likes Received:
    15,788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Absolutely NOT. I think the Vets should be given vouchers for regular health care and anyone who can't afford insurance can go to the VA system of health care.
     
  10. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Messages:
    16,275
    Likes Received:
    4,479
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The culture argument quickly dies when you try to find some aspect of healthcare that is not controlled by government. Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, Obamacare, Licensing requirements, civil law, prescription drugs, over-the-counter regulations, etc. etc. etc.

    You'll find no stone has been left unturned by the government when it comes to healthcare in the united states.

    The interests theory is certainly responsible for some of it. The AMA is the most obvious culprit, but there are others. I doubt you could find one hospital employee who isn't part of a union, and those union members vote.

    The institution theory is really about control of all that power. Every politician that ever won an election has sat around wondering how they can get a bit more power, and having the power to decide who gets healthy and who has to limp for the rest of their life is a lot of power.

    In the end, the reason why so much money is spent on healthcare is because government has more control over healthcare than most people realize, and government is very inefficient. Even countries with national health insurance have less control because their governments are oftentimes not as powerful as the US government.

    Some countries have a dual insurance situation with the government providing "free" healthcare for the masses that is designed to get you to pay for your own healthcare insurance. Since private insurers and private hospitals don't have as many controls thanks to the existence of those government institutions, they are actually quite reasonably priced. For example, the VA is a government run healthcare program that is deplorable. The problem is that there is no free market alternative in the states.

    One way to get this would be to have the government set up their own hospitals, while dismantling all the healthcare legislation currently on the books. The government can have their own rules and restrictions, while privately run hospitals would make their own. The privately run hospitals would then be competing with each other, rather than in cooperation with each other. You'd take one look at the grim government hospitals staffed by government employees with government nurses and government doctors, and run to the nearest private hospital you could find.

    You can kinda see this in education, with government schools that can't teach kids how to read, and private schools that charge based on how many of their graduates get accepted to the ivy league universities. Of course the government has their hooks in private schools as well by using the carrot and stick approach to public funds, which is why they aren't as good as they can be.

    Other countries have national health insurance programs or universal healthcare. There are lots of ways that this can be accomplished, so they can't all be lumped in with each other. Other countries also have far fewer poor people, so they don't have to charge the middle class more to make up for a large poverty class population.
     

Share This Page