Poroshenko asked rebels to surrender

Read:
WHAT IS TO BE DONE? PUTIN’S AGGRESSION IN UKRAINE NEEDS A RESPONSE
By Zbigniew Brzezinski, Published: March 3
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...b3f928-a2f5-11e3-84d4-e59b1709222c_story.html
Brzezinski basically recommends promises to Russia that the USA is not attacking Russia, but that the USA & EU want to help Ukraine, and that Ukraine won't be part or HATO or be turned against Russia.

Looks like the Russians bought his promises and have let the USA steal Ukraine.
But, as with the American Indians, Great Father from DC speak with forked tongue.
Even Russian TV is making a strong effort to justify the abandonment of Ukraine.
The excuse is:
Why should Russian soldiers die for Ukraine? Russian intervention would start a civil war in Ukraine. And, Ukraine is not part of Russia.
So why did Russia turn into a big sissy sitting around whining and sucking its thumb?

That Russia believed Brzesinski indicates that most likely the loss of Libya to USA terrorists was no accident, but a deliberate Russian gift to the axis of hypocrisy.

 

Well, take a deep breath. We're in the "calm before the storm". "Chocky" Poroshenko is going to send in his military forces to suppress the Russians in Eastern Ukraine, with an eye to exterminating them and/or turning them into silent slaves of Kiev. He thinks that NATO is going to come rushing to his aid if Russia intervenes.

Sorry, gentlemen... In English, we have a phrase to describe this kind of completely irrational hubris -- "IT WILL HAPPEN WHEN PIGS FLY...."

 

Dear friend,

the pro russian seperatists are terrorists. They either will surrender and be arrested or they must feel the iron fist. If a terrorist is freaking out and refuses to get arrested, you wanna let him go away with that?

No way. I am against capital punishment, so they should be in prison and if they have blood on their hands, it should be life. That is what pro russian terrorists should have known before they freaked out. I also want to see Putin in Den Haag one day. Allready his KGB actions in Germany are considered as criminal.

They had millions of possibilities to get an amnesty, but with a big mouth they played the arrogant warlords as this bastard in Slaviansk who arrested diplomats and said: "they are my guests".

Such mayor, self called mayor, should not get out of prison before he is an old man. That arrogance must be punshed to make an example for all.

I do not feel any pardon with these pro-russian warlords. Who asked them to come to Ukraine?


Simple as that.

 

very strange that when I offer the terrorists the option to surrender or be killed, I am accused of being a Nazi.

wow.

 

I would not take that seriously. The guy who called you beeing a nazi is ususally a very decent person - I disagree on most of his views, but he is moderate and decent.

Nevertheless his conclusion here is simply an emotional not really serious response.

Of corse your view is correct. I think any serious country would act that way with terrorists. So Germany did in 1977 Mogadischu, so the Isralis do, so Rusia does and also the USA - terrorism is not Oktoberfest.

 

we should treat the Russian terrorists in Ukraine, the same way Russia treats Chechen terrorists.

 

I already proved that Right Sector is a ultra nationalist group, not a fascist one. They aren't even in government, and have not been tied with ONE hate act.

 

to their discredit, the Ukraine govt. has Right Sector members serving on the front lines in Eastern Ukraine, wearing Right Sector armbands and other insignia.

not smart.

 

Please. Eliminate those who invade into territories and sew terror attacks on civilians:
1. Poroshenko, Turchinov, Yatsenyuk
2. All proprietors and executors of corporate media, who lied about Crimea and 'russian agression'.
3. All western politicians who financed and commanded information war and Maidan. Start with Nuland. She knows.

Then help Donetsk and Kugansk people to rebuild all the destroyed infrastucture and pay back to the families of those civilians who died because of western activities. Exactly as Russia did.

If your help extends to providing economical help and subsidising new generations to make peaceful life (which Russia also did) it would be remarkable, but I don't believe that West is able to act the same way as Russia did in Chechnya.
Because of:
1. Iraq.
2. Afghanistan
3. Libya

 

I respect your viewpoint, and your vulnerability vis-a-vis Russia because you are situated in Berlin. We Americans really "have no dog in this fight", and that is why I so opposed to our own President Warlord sticking his dictatorial nose in this entirely European affair.

My viewpoint is less one about morals and decency, and more focused on geopolitical, economic realities. Of course, Kiev is going to condemn the ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine as "terrorists", and, of course, the ethnic Russians view Kiev and many in Western Ukraine as "Nazis". But, in all candor, when I hear all this bluster and "iron-fisted" diktat about "surrender or be killed" from "Chocky" Poroshenko, I'm reminded explicitly of statements and behaviors of the old German Nazi leadership. By contrast, has anyone heard Vladsky making statements like, "These scum-sucking Nazis in Kiev must stop burning ethnic Russians alive or we will turn Kiev into a glass parking lot"? No? Eigentlich, das habe ich auch nicht gehört.... I think the first step toward reaching a peaceful agreement is to stop hurling incendiary, bellicose statements at other people.

The sad thing is that with an intelligently led coalition, spearheaded by both Germany and Russia, the abundant energy resources of Eurasia could be fully developed, transported, and shared at very reasonable costs. Germany is especially forward-thinking in the matters of organization and next-generation energy technologies: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/31/world/europe/31germany.html?_r=0 . I predict that it will be Germany that leads Europe toward innovation that will bring things like solar roadways and further development of wind power to practical usage: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ust-passed-a-whopping-2-million-in-donations/

Here in America, we have our own problems, and at the moment that includes tens of thousands of Central Americans illegally invading my old home state of Texas. Our idiot president is up to his armpits in trying to tell you Europeans how you should behave and what you should do, and yet he won't even stop the invasion of our own country from legion hordes of beggars storming into the United States right under our noses. Do you see what I'm driving at?

Reason together, all of you Europeans! You are better-educated than we Americans are, you understand yourselves and your situation far better than we can, and if you cooperate and compromise intelligently, you can solve all of your own problems. You don't need our idiot President Nothingness and his equally stupid vice-president over there trying to whip up trouble in Eastern Europe to further the interests of a pack of international bankers!

Alles gute!

 

No, Putin is too intelligent for that.

Only extremists make such statements, dehumanising the entire population of New Russia, calling for ethnic cleansing and other crimes against humanity.

 

Hey you !



I do have to disagree. But not exactly where you would expect it. Some things you discribe with a lot of emphatie and you really proof your capacity of beeing self critical as also very careful. I would say: we disagree partly, but your view cannot be discribed as "wrong". Not from my part. I would rather say that I watch that with a different priority in things as you, but I have no problem with your intention to calm down things. It is helpfull I think, propably also to myself !

About your complain about bad american education I want to disagree very clearly.

1. Europeans do learn english from the british. I did. A british intonation gives (to you) the idea of beeing more civilized (I have no clue why, but that is what I do hear from americans. That is an illusion. But first I want to differ here:

Beeing educated does not mean beeing cultured. It might go hand in hand, often it doesn't. If you disagree, tell me howcome that some of the best educated germans in the 30ties did support babarism?

A lot of europeans are pretty well educated (others are not) but I rarely do see your american capacity in them to hold on breath and to critizise themselves as I saw in in your movie "Mississipi Burning". Where was the serbian movie with the potential name: "Bosnia burning" where the english movie with the potential name "Ireland burning", where the french movie with the potential name "Algeria burning", where is today the german movie with the potential name "Gypsies burning" - insteat We do have on the list of our bestsellers the neonazi book from Thilo Sarrazin: "Deutschland schafft sich ab" - a discription in what you can read that it (to his sick opnion) would be based in the genetics of the turkish and arabs to be less intellegent as it would be based in the genetics of jews to be smart.

I mean also the idea that jews are more smart is rascism - may be unwanted (with a potential for positive discrimination) rascism, but it simply is. The idea that jewish people did focuss alwaws on education because in case of the need to run away they had to take something with them...no word about such logic.

But americans? All different. More cultured and by that potentially also........educated (the other way around does not always work as I said).

Yes. The energy policy in most countries are a desaster and I could get amused when americans OR russians laugh about us and our way to try to change things, if it wasn't be that serious. In Ukraine there is a civil war. Meanwhile, we do have 37 C in Berlin and that since 4 days in JUNE!

It is to try, to hot, to oftenh to try and to hot! But nobody seem to care. People like me are outside Germany considered as beeing retards, inside Germany among industrial freaks and neocons from the FDP / AFD who prefer to help big companies who cannot adopt that new system about windfarms and solar also.

I say just go ahead and destroy all! Their answer: "we do live now. I want to use all now!, not in 30 years!"

2.

I mean the right thing in a very personal resumation of these issues is:

Russia has a regime change
Germany will have a Green / Conservative coalition, SPD is useless
The EU wont take new members for the next 20 years and Britain will leave

NATO will create a part what is responsible to fight polution - Fraking will be forbidden as much as to search in the arctic. Russia joins NATO (yes, I am not joking) and NATO is by that an organisation to help in cases of catastrophies, but:

Russia MUST implantate real democracy with all human rights.

That wont happen my friend. Never.

So I support plan B:

Germany gets re-armed to the teeth
Germany looks for reasonable partners: France, the Belelux, Scandinavia, Poland, Central Europe without Hungary to put the EU on its feet and to leave the crisis behind us.
Britain must leave (at least the english)
the EU will be saved by german - french - polish leadership

That leadership keeps a distance to NSA USA, but explanes to Obama that the USA can be our best partner with stopping to spy on us.

All together (the west) we developp and sale high tech anti-polution systems to India and China.


Plan B would be without Russia. As long as Putin is in power and as long as russians are as nationalistic and rascist as they are, they are no partner to me.

Not to me, citizin and proud german in and from Berlin, former Berlin (West).


Take care, god bless your great country! I do mean it exactly that way. Respect that please Sir, thank you ^^

 

It's not up to you whether Putin will remain in power, it's up to the Russian people and what they feel is in their best interest. As for Russians being nationalistic, I mean twenty million did die to fight nationalism, and in Eastern Ukraine they are fighting the nationalists again, so are you sure you're not projecting... I mean you did write this on another thread and it sounds very nationalistic to me:

"...To russians the warning: Turkey is not Georgia. Russia should not dare to do the slightest mistake. Turkey would beat them up like hell if so.

God save Turkey, great country...."

Oh that's right I forgot, you're not Turkish you're German.

 

Uhhh! Odessa comes to mind.

 

1. I also think that Israel and the USA are great countries. That does not make me beeing an isaeli or american.
2. I dislike very much the turkish goverment - as I do dislike the russian one. I also did meet very decent russian people, but where are the "russian Alevites and Kemalists"?

I do not think you get me at all here, but never mind...

The difference about my impression is that you have more awareness about the undemocratic and evil structures within turkish goverment among turkish than you do have that among russians - right now.
3. To use the fact that Germany did attack the USSR what was a crime indeed as justification to attack Ukraine is not simply ridicilous. It is openly a way to play with russian patriotism to wipe out democratic desissions of ukrainians to be connected to the west.

Russia in his elites ! feels as Putin personally insulted that it was rejected.

But honestly: Putin cannot expect any symphatie for his attack on Ukraine from other countries and its people. Impossible.

Putin does hold his own citizin responsible for the consequences. That is sad for all such russians who feel that there is something going on very wrong with their country. I think these russians should not be forgotten, but Putins Russia is not a country what will get any respect from civilized societies.

The actual additional problem is about the US and its spy activities on western countries. That did hold an extreme clear unique position - but also Putin did manage to make germans thinking less about NSA and more about Putins aggression.

To Obama I would say: he should immidiately make now an anti - spy agreement with Germany and promise really clearly (also to other western countries) to stop espionage.

That would help a lot. Germans are not terrorists as Osama Bin Laden - no reason to spy on us.

But all irritation wont change the basic jugdement about the issue from western countries here:

Putins Russia is no partner anymore. No partnership with imperialistic countries, never ever.

 

In Odessa, the peaceful ukrainian citizins did demonstrade for Ukraine. Than over sudden pro-russian fascists did attack them and tried to kill them. As an reaction, they defended themselves and it is easily possible that such defense went out of proportions, but actually ukrainian nationalists as the pro-russian fascistic Putin-block , mostly sended from Moscow, killed eachother: the ukrainian peaceful people where the victims of both groupes.

Putin did cause that: his russians who crossed the borders did start the desaster. That Putin after complained is more than just cynical, but...

...typical for a fascist EX KGB agent with the ambitions of Stalin.

 

This vid tells a different story about Odessa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4dJRnI-X8Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

Ukrainians do not surrender to Kiev bombardments. The war is decided by those, who fight on the ground. Self mobilization began. These people will not forget crimes in Odessa and elsewhere in Ukraine. Poroshenko would be better of, if he would start with real negotiating. The more blood on his hands, the less chance for a peaceful solution of the conflict. May be other cities will join the fight.

 

Can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt that right sector initiated the so called "Odessa Massacre"?

 

Here, in USA, we can get lost in guesses and speculations, our media is not interested, but Ukrainians know better. Trust them.

 

\I'd never heard of this massacre because I don't watch the news and haven't for years. So I looked up on you tube and found this video. Is thise the kind of thing you mean? The video is about 11 minutes long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4dJRnI-X8Q

 

That's the same video I posted a link for earlier, though the URLs are slightly different. Wonder why that is?

Anyway, one of the better vids I've seen on the Odessa Massacre.

 

Good Post!!!

 

That's insanely stupid reasoning for believing one form of media over another. RT is the only one calling it a massacre, because it wasn't -_-

 

This video showing what is really happened.