Progressive trends - What's next?

While I agree with almost everything you have said - the same is true of Red. Red Establishment loves increasing the power of Gov't - and hates limitations to Gov't power - towards a quazi totalitarian police state. Red Establishment hates the founding principles and the rule of law has no respect for individual liberty (except of course for things they agree with - just like Blue).

The right gulps down all the Establishment propaganda fed to them by the MSM like blind sheep being led to the slaughterhouse.

 

Partially correct. The GOP establishment operates as you say. But there are two distinct factions of Republicans though both are considered red. The true conservatives of which there are millions, like the tea party, do not operate or believe as you say.

 

Aaaaaaaaaaand that killed the thread!

Yet another one that turns into a "My party is better than your party!"

Ugh.

 

I agree (Bold) and perhaps with the "partially correct" comment... its a complex topic. Since I agree with your perspective.. my guess is that there is a misunderstanding of what what I have said when you say - "as you say"

The disconnect I think is here - You are referring to the republican party as a whole. I was speaking specifically about "The Establishment".

My guess is that your definition of E .. and my definition of E .. are different.

So : you give me yours .. and I will give you mine ..

 

They remind me of a giant reincarnation of the Jim Jones flock.

Everything they support is most dangerous to them. When Islam is around 20% in Europe, there will be mass killings of anyone espousing "progressive" ideas.

 

It's difficult to precisely define who establishment Republicans are. I'm talking about the Republicans who predominate in the seats of power and government and have been ling entrenched. The best distinction is classic conservative vs. constitutional conservative. The tea party and the like are constitutional conservatives who believe strongly in the republic as it was set up by the framers which calls for a strictly limited federal government (other than the things spelled out where a central government is more adept at), fiscal responsibility, individual liberty, and such.

The entrenched Republicans with the power I guess could be called establishment. They are the Republicans you described and like the strong central government, don't care much beyond lip service for fiscal responsibility -- McConnell once quipped that you never lose votes by spending money -- and, while not quite as much as leftist Democrats, think individual liberty is as much a pain in the butt as anything.

 

Bigfoot running the IRS, daily chupacabra meat rationing, lizard people forced to wear patches.

 

Try the term neocon, bucket loads of old money, don't give a damn about much other than political power and the military and military interventionism

 

Hopefully they continue to eat their own.

They have all of these bizarre purity tests.

 

My definition of Establishment includes elite bureaucrats - the elite/entrenched politicians - and the big money interests that pull the strings.

In any case - your mention of "millions" is more than what you describe above - hence my disconnect comment.

My claim was : Red Establishment loves increasing the power of Gov't - and hates limitations to Gov't power - towards a quazi totalitarian police state. Red Establishment hates the founding principles and the rule of law has no respect for individual liberty (except of course for things they agree with - just like Blue).

Where there are some in the GOP Establishment political class who have not sold our essential liberty and economic security to the big money interests - it is few and far between.

Pick and issue -

freedom of speech, the press and freedom of information - Sold . Look how they are going after Assange, forcing Google- FB and so on to promote establishment propaganda while censoring dissenting opinion. Not just Assange but those in Gov't who tried to out criminality within Gov't through legitimate channels .

Healthcare - many yap their mouths but the systemic issues are never addressed- Red and Blue. 3.5 Trillion dollars in 2017. Roughtly the same amount as the entire federal revenue for that year. The biggest legal extortion racket on the planet.

Sure we hear lone voices from time to time calling out some issue "price fixing of drugs" for example. Everyone turns and says "LOOK LOOK we have freedom of speech in this country and a diverse opinion"

That lone voice is then quickly drowned out by the cacophony on the take - and it is back to business as usual.

The "Patriot Act" - you know .. act which made it our patriotic duty to give up individual liberty - to as Franklin put it - those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary security deserve neither.

These elite politicians want us on our knees - begging" - to give up essential liberty for security - over a risk of harm that is 400 times less than the risk of harm from "walking".

Then - they turn around and spend our tax dollars funding the very terrorist group that did 911. If this is not Orwellian doublespeak .. not sure what is. If we are so scared of Al Qaeda .. that we gave up essential liberty because they are such a threat to US citizens - akin to some big army massing on our borders. .. why are we arming and supporting them ?

These are obvious questions that a fair and free media would be asking - but, we do not have a fair and free media - not with respect to challenging the official Establishment narrative of the day.

So how about we put this to the test .. and see how many in Congress are defenders of liberty with respect to this issue. "Should we arm the 911 terrorists" .. or should we not ?

As it turns out - 13 Bipartisan in the house co-sponsored the "Stop Arming Terrorist Act" .. out of 435. When Rand Paul introduced the bill into the Senate he got a total of "ZERO" cosponsors... our of 100.

The Demon is in the details.





Limits to Gov't power - Sold

 

You got that backwards..

 

They started closing all of the psychiatric hospitals across the US in the late 1960s, coincidence? I predict that their next mission will be to get rid of the sex offender registry and declare all sex offenders a protected class, a sexual orientation. They are already leaning that way for pedophiles. This is why there is such a big push to get rid of guns, Christians, Jews and White men. I think the only way to end it is to start living up to their stereotypes.

 

I think not.

That would be an amazing plot-twist considering how the current Feminist movement is obsessed with labelling everything as "sexual harassment". However, one should not be surprised if it happens.

I also think you should not be too surprised if Feminism will be turned into a scapegoat in the nearest future.

You are right.

 

Progressivism is dying.....good riddance.

 

I wish a progressive would tell us what they have in mind, because it's confusing as hell to people who aren't progressives. Progress is so damn subjective that it's meaningless.

 

Orthodox Jews not just all jews..

 

Psychiatry doesn't have a very good track record of success. In the 60s, they were still giving people lobotomies furchirssake! The entire profession became a terrible joke, and psychiatrists were seen as nuttier than their patients.

 

Agreed.

However, I have been engaged in political discussion for a couple of decades and have to say that present day progressivism is like nothing seen before. It's so far left, and continuing to push left, almost as if progressives are trying to outdo each other.

The culture war is in full swing. Of all ideologies, progressivism is the one I find most terrifying.

 

Absolutley true.

I have many friends who are democrat. Progressives are not the same as a democrat.

 

What a strange comment .. are you so befuddled that all you can do is stammer "Its backwards .. its all backwards" ? or is it that you just have no ability to justify your claims ?

 

So what do your friends who consider themselves progressives actually want?

I've tried figuring it out, but there is no actual political philosophy called "progressivism" except as a vague sort of reference to progressing the human condition. As I wrote previously, it's too vague to be of any use, so...

I've asked family members who claim to be progressives, and they refuse to explain themselves. I've asked friends and they refuse. It's like trying to nail jello to the wall with these people, and I'm starting to think that maybe they're not exactly right in the head.

 

You realize that it was a Democrat who proclaimed "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for you country."

This is a foreign thought to modern day progressives.

Progressives are like the tea party. They take the foundations of the democratic party and take it to another level.

If they are a millenial who opposes the military in the name of free ****... they are a progressive.

 

I'm not a democrat and think that's a pretty stupid idea. If my country isn't doing something for me, then what good is it?

The way I look at it, my country does X for me. There's an actual value I can put on that. Then there's the stuff I have to do for my country to maintain X, or even improve it.

Taxes and regulations and laws reduce X, and quite frankly, it's not really all that important. We've gotten by okay, but just since I've been alive, things have taken such an incredible downward trend that it's not worth it.

It's like a marriage. There's a reason you got married, but there are reasons for divorce, and those reasons are piling up pretty damn high.

 

I would definitely disagree with that observation. It is quite obvious that they are stepping up their game and becoming increasingly radical. They are also quite dedicated in throwing wood into and pouring gasoline onto the racism debate.

Things are not looking good and it is quite clear that no matter what happens four years from now, it will all be blamed on Trump because in him, they have their ultimate scapegoat.

I think the next progressive obscurity might be something race related. Perhaps they will finally manage making reparations a reality.

 

leftists are the totalitarians not right wingers.