Psaki: Even After Vaccine, You Still Need to Social Distance and Wear Masks

They had their reasons for including the 42 "possible" in their 44 reinfections unless you are saying that they had an agenda. Their concluding number was 0.17 ratio. That is a significant number

From the Isreali link:
"the vaccinated people were unlikely to be carriers or infectious", and "But much remains unknown, including its long-term protection."

"Unlikely" and "unknown" are the key word in that extract.

1 out of 6 individuals did not develop "immunity" in the study I linked to

Let's get to the crux of the matter. Are you saying that you would be ok for the government to announce that those who have recovered from the virus and those who have been vaccinated no longer have to wear a mask? This is what people will hear even if the government then says please refer to this 10,000 word leaflet for full disclosure.

I also leave this with you regarding transmission after vaccination

The first paragraph in that quote above gives the indication of risk of further transmission regarding a recovered covid infected person being reinfected again but still susceptible to becoming an asymptomatic carrier when reinfected
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777268

 

True that. We are living in divisive times. I don't resent cultural diversity, I find it good for a vibrant society. But I do resent identity politics.

 

When I was growing up in the 70's living in the UK I used to admire the patriotism shown in the USA. There was still cultural diversity but when the population were representing the country there appeared to be unity across all divides. This no longer seems to be the case and seems to have started when Obama got elected. Perhaps this disunity always existed but the internet has exposed it

 

My uncle (RIP) was involved with the VA after injuries he suffered aboard an aircraft carrier during the Korean War. He evolved into a guy who helped dozens and dozens of vets get what they were promised by the VA.

 

It goes all the way back to the Vietnam War. Obama sent some white people into frenzy and you may be confusing ODS (Obama Derangement Syndrome) for other maladies.

 

I saw the hatred and racism directed against Obama and his wife. I don't remember any attacks against Laura Bush and can't remember any attacks even against Hilary Clinton during Bill Clinton's Presidency - attacks against H Clinton started coming when she became SOS

 

How about comparing to Canada? Multiply their numbers by 8.8 to get a level playing field...



You could look at British Columbia (5.1m people) and multiply by



We would have just over 82,000 covid deaths if we were doing as well.

 

Im starting to worry about social distancing. I mean American Indians socially distanced really well, and it didn't work out so well

 

Please explain what you think the 0.17 ratio indicates.

That’s my point. Israeli experts look at the evidence and conclude vaccinated individuals are unlikely to be carriers. You on the other hand, with no evidence, claim vaccination can’t prevent anyone from being a carrier. I’ve addressed longevity of protection at length. You are welcome to provide studies showing I’m incorrect in my assessment. Show me some data.

Even if we count the “possible” cases, the vast majority DID develop immunity, just as I’ve claimed. You are presenting data that backs my claim. I appreciate it, but I don’t understand why you think it supports your position that there is no evidence for sterilizing immunity. You are literally in denial of science.

“The government” has made the incorrect call on masks every time they have taken a position. It’s time for government to stop lying and give people the truth. After almost a year of lying they need to admit we should all be using N95 masks, not homemade garbage. They should admit they allowed the initial spread of disease by recommending against effective mitigation when rates were low. They should admit masks are most effective at reducing transmission when used outside the public sphere. At this point, the government has no credibility on masks. They should stop recommending anything if they can’t make correct recommendations. They should give citizens the WHOLE truth on vaccines before they ruin their credibility on vaccination. Government should now get out of the “recommendations” business. Their recommendations have consistently exacerbated the pandemic. Right now they need to focus on being honest.

Of course. This adenovirus vector vaccine is inferior to the Phizer and Moderna vaccines. It’s also the outfit that gave the wrong dosage in trials. Yet it still prevents a large percentage of individuals from being infected when exposed. Just like I’ve been saying. It’s still evidence your claim vaccines don’t prevent infection are false. You posted more than the first paragraph, you should read the following paragraphs that explicitly state the vaccine prevents PCR positivity.

Now, would you like to tell the forum how many doses of this vaccine have been administered in the US to determine how relevant this vaccine is to mask recommendations in the US?

 

So is your answer "yes" to the question "Are you saying that you would be ok for the government to announce that those who have recovered from the virus and those who have been vaccinated no longer have to wear a mask? This is what people will hear even if the government then says please refer to this 10,000 word leaflet for full disclosure. "

 

If you agree that vaccinated people are unlikely to spread covid why should they wear a mask?

 

Yes, you are smarter than the CDC, and thus don't have to care about others.

That is wha a sociopah would say.

 

What you posted is just what a lemming would say.

 

CDC states that those vaccinated still need to wear a mask.

This isn't just some political solution. Their point is that those who have been vaccinated STILL can carry a virus load that is capable of infecting others and there is no study that suggests that this doesn't continue to be a serious risk.

Those who say they don't have to wear a mask because they are vaccinated are simply stating that they are smarter than science.

 

No. The government should keep its “mouth shut” about what people should do and disseminate accurate information only. No telling people what to do or not do. Every person’s situation is different. Each individual should have access to ALL information that is correct and not be fed incorrect information. Then they can decide for themselves what level of risk they have and what level they are willing to tolerate.

It’s very clear ending the pandemic is not the goal of the federal government. Its also very clear the well being of individual citizens isn’t a priority of the federal government. It’s time for the American people to take charge of their own health and safety. To do that they need accurate information, not more government BS.

 

It's more that in general, it is pretty dang STUPID to ignore science.

And, with our national objective being getting this pandemic under control so we can get back to business (and entertainment), deciding to ignore what experts are stating is especially stupid.

It is PROFOUNDLY disgusting to me that people like you know the above yet behave in a way that risks people's lives and slows our progress as a nation.

That behavior IS sociopathic.

 

This is pure nonsense. We face all sorts of risks. The idea that there should be no government effort in creating an approach to risks that affect the population as a whole is just plain stupid. In fact, unbelievably stupid.

Communicable disease is a case where there has to be reasonably uniform behavior across the population in order to reduce the problem within a reasonabl time frame. What one individual does seriously impacts others.

If your behavior impacted only you, your idea might be OK.

But, what YOU do absolutely DOES affect me. And, not just directly (as in me getting sick). For example, it affects our entire health care system.

There are people out there who are dying simply from trying to keep COVID patients alive. There are people needing surgeries, but can not get them, because people are sick and hospital wings are dedicated to COVID. I have a friend who couldn't get a bed in a hospital in order to give birth.

And, the REASON for that is that PEOPLE CAN NOT FIGURE OUT what do do even when it is CLEARLY STATED.

So, NO. We tried it your way and that was a FABULOUS failure.

 

Too much trouble just so you personally can go maskless.

 

Cite please.

CDC says this has not been shown to be true. How long immunity lasts is not known and neither is it known that someone with antibodies can't communicate the disease.

 

Where are they going to get that accurate information? Who is going to determine that it is accurate. Alex Jones? Trump?

Those who refuse to wear a mask are not the ones who are putting themselves at risk. Where are you getting this nonsense from?

But back to the real world. Bob knows that it's all a hoax and it is a conspiracy by governments around the world and pharmaceutical companies. Bob doesn't feel like wearing a mask and doesn't care if he infects everyone around him. Bob doesn't need a mask anyway as he is young so doesn't matter if he gets it. Bob can't be bothered to read anything, he doesn't need to, he heard it on infowars

You are on record now as a conspiracist. You are Bob

 

I'll leave this here, post 480, which I missed earlier on in this thread

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...f-the-vaccines.576983/page-20#post-1072424313

You might notice a 0.18 in there (I quoted 0.17 aka 1 in 6 aka Russian Roulette with other peoples lives)

 

See post #440 for more background. But it’s up to the individual’s circumstances and risk tolerance. If I was high risk for severe Covid and had issues that made me unlikely to have a good immune response to vaccination I might consider mask usage. If I lived in an area where a strain was prevalent that wasn’t covered by the vaccine I received and was concerned about being infected I might consider mask usage.

But an otherwise healthy individual with good immune response that’s vaccinated with a good vaccine known to cover strains likely to be encountered? You decide what’s best for you. At some point the argument for wearing masks to protect others from infinitesimal risk meets the law of diminishing returns. We haven’t been wearing masks for decades to “save” the 100,000+ people who die of influenza annually. There has to be some logic involved. Hopefully logic at some point prevails. Because the risk will never be zero. Everyone will have to accept that eventually. It sounds like you already have.

 

Wow, after all this time, it turns out that you think that the primary purpose of a mask is to protect the mask wearer!

 

No. What is stupid is what we have tried. Following bad advice from government sources. How is it working out? Not so great. No advice from government is better than bad advice and bad advice is what we have had.

States have the ability to manage the pandemic as can be demonstrated by results. What works in one state is nonsense in others. The federal government has done mostly harm. Very great harm in some instances.

I can guarantee you my behavior has been advantageous to you. It’s almost certain your behavior has been detrimental to me.

It’s funny you call my ideas stupid. I’m safe, happy, and secure living my ideas in practice in a state without your hospital problems. Your ideas left you with hospital problems, stress, and in danger from contracting a virus. It’s left you so emotional your argument is calling my ideas that are successful stupid.

Now, if there was a competent government you may be able to change my mind.

 

OK. I see your point.

But, the fact of what Trump did throughout last year is not a justification for ignoring government in any plan to harden America against this or future pandemics (knowing FULL well that more pandemics absolutely will arrive here).

The fact is that today EVERYONE knows what CDC, WHO, Dr. Fauci's communicable disease organization, Dr. Gupta, and everyone else in related sciences says about how to defend America against this pandemic.

And, people are NOT consistently following even the most BASIC directions.

Suggesting that the next time around, people will suddenly start listening to medical science is a pipe dream.

We are ALWAYS going to need a robust and consistent response, and that is not going to happen without government.

Decisions on schools, on types of work, just even on wearing masks, on the responsibility of corporations to take reasonable precautions with their workers (like meat packing plants STILL refuse to do), travel (both foreign and domestic), etc. - these ALL are areas where government has to make decisions on how our society will come together in that defense.

Let's remember that we had people pulling GUNS on employees at stores that required masks - as medical science stated was necessary.