Race and IQ gap

Really......

Mark Pagel is an evolutionary biologist who used to buy into the idea that human races did not exist

Interesting he mentions the Marxist (religious zealot) bring an overbearing censorship to the topic, strange we see the froth at the mouth in this thread. Like i said worse than young earthers, they attack science and demonize scientists.

 

And yet that variation is quite enough to produce variations in mass of 400%. Hardly a stretch from a grou[p with ana average IQt o 80 to one of 107 is it?

 

Ok, let's say for the sake of argument that these studies are right and there is a difference in intelligence between the races. So what? What do we do about it?

 

It is often asserted that blacks have made no IQ gains on whites, despite relative
environmental gains, and that this adds credibility to the case that the black/white IQ gap
has genetic origins. Until recently, there have been no adequate data to measure black IQ trends. We analyze data from nine standardization samples for four major tests of cognitive ability. These suggest that blacks have gained 5 or 6 IQ points on non-Hispanic whites between 1972 and 2002. Gains have been fairly uniform across the entire range of black cognitive ability. Blacks gained on whites even though whites made their own gains. It is safer to say that: blacks today aged 12 have a mean IQ of about 90.5; and young blacks have gained 5.52 points on whites over 30 years. Using the 95% confidence limits according to our regression estimates, the gain falls between 4.8 and 6.3 points. It is worth noting that the only data set (the WISC) that covers the entire period of 1972 to 2002 gives a gain of 5.67 points. The constancy of the black/white IQ gap is a myth. Blacks have gained 5 or 6 IQ points on whites over the last 30 years. Our analysis of standardization samples showed black IQ (age 12) rising from 85 in 1972 to 90.5 in 2002. For young blacks, the K-ABC gives 93 in 1983, Raven's 93 in 1985, the WJ 90 in 1987, and the Wonderlic 87 in 1992. Averaging these puts black IQ at 91 circa 1987.

http://www.brookings.edu/views/papers/dickens/20060619_iq.pdf

 

You quoted information from a political think tank. They cherry picked that info btw.

 

First you recognize that you dont know everything, science is learning and that race as we know it might well exist. Then like the blue arsed butterfly you dont flood its habitat with other butterflys that will replace it.

 

My question is SO WHAT? Let's assume, just for the sake of argument that there IS an IQ gap and it IS racial. So What? Does this mean that an Afram genius is any less a genius? Should George Washington Carver had been denied education and sent to pick cotton?

If anything it seems you're supporting permanent affirmative action, since the idea is to make a level playing field and the only way to do that if blacks are overall less intelligent is to cut them a break forever. Is that what you're arguing for?

 

Is this a parody? Do you understand that "level playing field" means equal opportunity, not equal outcome?

The greatest utility is found when considering group questions. Like "what will happen if we allow the replacement of Detroit's Whites with Blacks? (achieved by violent Black racists with artificial grievances)", "what happens when you allow unrestrained immigration from the third world?".

 

Yeh, the question was a bit of a parody, but the original question remains. Again, assuming (as no reputable ethnologist does) that blacks are, as a race, less intelligent, so ******* what? Who cares? What do you think should be done about it, if anything?

 

This has already been established as a failed argument for several reasons.

First and foremost standardized IQ tests don't measure human intelligence. There isn't an accepted definition for human intelligence and we cannot measure what we can't even define. Standardized IQ tests measure a very small segment of human intelligence that only relates to education and commercial enterprise in Western societies and the results represent aptitude more so than intelligence.

Poverty and motivation have already been shown to be the two major factors in the difference in the score results. Denial of equality of opportunity for African-Americans literally destroys the motivation related to education in America today. This alone results in a 20 point difference in the IQ test scores. Additionally poverty can contribute up to a 14 point difference in the standardized IQ test scores.

Bottom line it is social differences, not differences in actual human intelligence, that are reflected by the differences in standardized IQ test scores and this has been well documented by numerous studies. There are no studies that actually reflect any difference in human intelligence between different races. The actual genetic differences between races is so slight as to be irrelevant and all are fundamentally cosmetic differences.

 

Yopu are no authority Shiva. Your opinion without any evidence is utterly irrelevant.

next you will be telling me that there is no genetic difference in height between races because we are all so similar genetically.

 

Yeah yeah next you'll say space doesnt exist because science cant explain everything about the universe.

 

Why not make motivation 14 and poverty 20. I think that sounds better.

 

Let's say it is true. What does it really matter? Should different races be given different classes of citizenship/rights/privileges? I just don't see that it matters.

 

The change in the points were determined by objective tests and I had nothing to do with them. They are not "opinions" but instead established by objective studies.

 

This is blatantly false.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...ligence-is-a-fallacy-study-finds-8425911.html

Standardized IQ tests do not measure human intelligence.

 

Define human intelligence?

 

The Black-White IQ gap actually increases when socioeconomic level for Blacks and Whites increases.



One can also cite the Minnesota Transracial Adoption study and regression toward the mean I mentioned in the OP.

 

No it's not. I mentioned five separate points in the OP that all converge on a genetic basis for IQ differences.

Some include the following:

*Measurable brain volume differences

*Genetic expression for brain morphology

*Regression toward the mean

I also said IQ correlates w/ anti-social behavior, economic and educational attainment.

You've made a straw-man that this thread is about IQ being equivalent to intelligence.

Btw, there are differences in other intelligence testing beside IQ, such as measuring for g, general intelligence, which involves fluid intelligence (Raven's Progressive Matrices) and short term memory (Backward Digit Span tests).

 

There is no agreement on what human intelligence is which is why it can't be measured. That's why its a fallacy to compare human intelligence based upon standardized IQ tests that only measure a very small component of intelligence that is highly affected by numerous social factors.

 

Yes they do. Of course intelligence tests do not measure creativity, "gab", empathy, sociability, and all of the other important things that can be considered "all of the differences in cognitive ability that we see between people". IQ measures intelligence, and it's extremely important.

By the way, even if a three factor model explains intelligence there would still be the same racial difference on these three factors.

 

If we don't know what intelligence is then how the hell do you know the tests DO NOT measure "it"

Didn't mama tell you double edged blades are sharp?

 

Btw, for highly g-loaded tests which measure the above, the Black-White general intelligence gap is even greater than the IQ gap.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx

You also misunderstood what your article actually said. The article is saying that IQ tests are an incomplete measure of intelligence. That's not the same as claiming IQ does not measure human intelligence, when it certainly does.

I suggest you read your articles more carefully next time, and also try to make sure you comprehend the terminology and arguments in this thread and the articles you post.

 

WP:Flynn wrote that "Gould's book evades all of Jensen's best arguments for a genetic component in the black–white IQ gap, by positing that they are dependent on the concept of g as a general intelligence factor. Therefore, Gould believes that if he can discredit g no more need be said. This is manifestly false. Jensen’s arguments would bite no matter whether blacks suffered from a score deficit on one or ten or one hundred factors."

 

So what [part of intelligence doesn't IQ measure then?