Racism in standardized testing

I do strive to address people who are fairly skilled at using reason and logic, yes... People who question and demand "proof" of the obvious just for the sake of questioning don't deserve too much attention. And if it's not that, but that they don't get that lack of personal experience with something has nothing to do with IQ or..;. any other natural attribute that is relevant to learning, then it's only worth explaining it to them once. I think I've explained it to you more than once, so I'm sure the latter is not what is happening in your case.

 

It's not ME. It's the sciences that are tasked with defining the concept: mostly Biology and Anthropology.

You need to understand one thing: VERY little of what I say here is me "believing" anything. I have researched and I simply adopt the consensus position of the experts in the field, or in the scientific field itself. So I don't even have to "think" much.

Now you know my main "cheat"

It is. And that's the main reason why racism exists. As soon as they understand that there is no such thing, they won't have a reason to be racist. Believing that things like "skin color" defines anything other than skin color and, therefore, that it can be tagged as "race" is no better than tagging hair color or eye color or... the size of one's nose... as "race".

Because people confuse culture with "race".

We will always recognize CULTURAL differences. All we need to do is get used to not calling them "racial" differences once we have learned there is no such thing as race. But if you're saying that there will always be racism... maybe. I don't know. I think the level of racism is inversely proportional to people's level of education.

And, BTW, cultural differences are important for the health of society. We just need to stop discriminating against people because of them.

Which is obviously ridiculous. And that's my point: there is nothing intrinsic to a dog's hair color that would drive them to bite more. But if people were "racist" against black dogs, they might beat them more often, and you would GET 50% of bites being inflicted by black dogs defending themselves.

What other reason would there be for black dogs to bite more?

Unfortunately I didn't get the relevance of your example to this discussion. People actions can have many motives. Having the two genes that determine skin color configured in a certain way is NOT one of them.

 

So you think you are addressing people who use "reason and logic" but also those same people don't require proof of what you consider "the obvious." In the case of this thread, that white people who don't use cups and saucers to drink coffee will still have a better idea of what a cup and saucer is than black people. Also that white people who've never been anywhere near or seen a yacht or regatta will still be more familiar with those terms than black people.

I contend that position is neither reasonable or logical, nor can you back it up in any way. It's simply your exposure to all of us in this thread of your racial prejudice.

 

Bingo! Leave it right there so any reasonable reader can understand.

For you:, that's correct. Reasonable people don't need "proof" of what is obvious. The dialogue would go something like...
-"It's raining"
-"Prove it!"

Wrong, as usual.... But don't bother. It's what can be expected of somebody whose only recourse is the strawman. The alternative explanation would get me in trouble with the mods, so I won't express it.

This has obviously taken way longer than it merits. Thanks anyway....

 

Just an observation, but I've noticed on this forum that people on the losing side of the argument love to chop up and edit replies. My full reply here:

As expected, you were not able to respond to a single point or explain why your racist position (from a guy who claims race doesn't exist weirdly) is obvious.

 

Actually, people on the wrong side of the argument tend to quote everything, but then don't respond to what they quote. They make up a strawman like "...that white people who don't use cups and saucers to drink coffee will still have a better idea of what a cup and saucer is than black people." And THAT'S what they respond to.

 

But no one said that, although that seems much closer to your revealed position.

 

Glad to know you are letting whomever's opinions you like steer your thinking. That explains a lot.

And while people may believe they have many motives, if you distill them down you find the basic elements behind them are far fewer, and tell you a great deal about how they think, and why.

It doesn't matter if we call people's color, black or white or yellow a "race". It's an identifier of people who are part of a group, and usually part of the culture the group maintains. As such, we tend to expect people who are obviously in a group with a particular identifier to behave in ways that are common to the group, things that their behavioral history says are probable.

Doesn't mean it applies to all in the group- but it is relevant to probability. I don't see the conduct of black people as a product of color- but of culture. And not only from yesterday, but from the traditions that have been in place for perhaps hundreds or even a thousand years. Those are things that any individual in that group can change for themselves, but you and I have no power to change. We have the power to pretend it's not there, but that is delusion. They have to decide to change, individually, and enough individual have to decide to change to alter the indications of their group identifier.

You chose to adopt the opinions, the "culture" of the scientific papers and authors you agree with. While that lacks a visible identifier, it shows adopted values, and that is what this is about.

 

Happy to have made that clear. They're not MY opinions. They are either the opinions of experts or, as in the case in question ("no such thing as races"), what Science has concluded

It matters very much. Why call them anything? If you want to describe a person, you include skin color, eye color, hair color (or lack thereof), height, shoe-size ... Other than that, I don't see any reason.

They're already part of the ONLY group that counts: the group of human beings.

There is no common culture that any of those maintain. It's a mistake. But I don't know what the relevance of any of this is, so I'll look for some substance in your post.

You would be wrong.

I agree with scientific fact. If the papers and authors agree with scientific fact, then they and I agree with the same objective facts.

 

The liberal mindset, which has taken over a lot of so called expert positions- fails to recognize the obvious, time after time.

People are not all the same, and the differences cover a wide spectrum of both physical and mental conditions. ANY person can be a solid citizen, or a dangerous or worthless person.
Ask your psychologist or therapist if this is true: No matter what you say or claim- what you do is who you are. The trick in much of life is seeing the future- and that means recognizing risk or danger. Reading people- and people are always telling you who they are, IF you look in the right places, and IF you are paying attention. Identifiers are absolute indications, but indications of probabilities.

It's not that much different from gangs, as an extreme example. If you see some guy with MS-13 tattoos all over him, you will just see another person, right? Invite him home for lunch....
That's an identifier. Any association, voluntary or not with a larger group has that affect. It's not a matter of it being right or wrong, it's just true. How you use the information that conveys is up to you.

 

That's a lame strawman. Talking about people not being the same makes it obvious that you don't have real arguments. Some are fat, some are tall, some are pretty, some are ugly... It's nonsense! I'm not talking about anything that has anything to do with that. I'm talking about racism. The idea that there is this thing they call "race" that makes people act or think in different ways. Parallels between factors like skin-color, religion, country of origin, ... are noted by racists as having a direct impact on those attitudes. This has been debunked by every single science. Any impact is due to external factors: socioeconomic status, religion, culture, ... Just like there is a difference if you are fat, tall, ugly or short... or any other of the factors that racists don't necessarily discriminate against.

But your attempt at a smoke-screen makes it obvious that you ran out of arguments.

 

I wonder if you actually read posts for understanding, or just search for ways to deny them.

Pay attention for a change. The keyword of my statement is IDENTIFIERS. Things that people see that they associate behaviors with. I don't care if you want to discard the term "race", but the process of identifying what you see by its association with a category is something everyone does, and it's common sense, not prejudice. The people who really abuse the concept of racism want to make all people who are white into racists, babies included. The people who hate Trump want to portray MAGA is a terrorist slogan. A red maga hat is all they need to see, and they know it's an enemy. The black people who hate all white people...true racism in practice. Use any word you like, but it doesn't change the nature of it.

If I handed you a rattlesnake and told you it was a harmless snake, would you be able to recognize the risk? Could you identify it without consulting the internet?
The widely accepted idea that people can't control themselves and can't recognize the signs that identify what they see or are doing is hogwash. Regardless of your color and for that matter, your culture- you decide how to act. If you hang out with the wrong crowd, you should expect to be seen as one of them. The idea you don't know that's happening and that you are doing it doesn't sell to any rational person.

 

A mythcal story, there are several versions of it out there, the best you got?

 

yeah my two nieces-with a Chinese mother, both scored over 1550 on the SATs because they were half white!!

 

Your post is a good start to prove that mathematics is racists and should be removed from schools curriculum – we just have to show that White families teaching their children math from the young age and Blacks families not – and here the math goes through the window.

If the correct answer to a series of pictures of pregnant woman is an infant – it means that IQ test is homophobic?

Yes, there are some bad questions on the IQ tests – but it likely due to systemic racism, systemic homophobia or because misunderstanding what IQ test should predict? IQ test should predict success in problem solving – a bad question is a bad question and should be removed. Period.

It is true that there are more Black people in prison than White people, but do you really believe the reason is ‘systemic racism’, like the fact that black people are seven times more likely to be stopped and arrested than white people, and six to seven times more likely to be falsely convicted of crimes like murder?
Don’t you think that another factor like culture or poverty is the reason? Because if someone will create an experiment where Black people will stopped at exactly the same rate as White, a jury and a judge will be mostly Black and still more Blacks will be convinced, it will be a definitive prove that Black people have inherent criminal tendencies.

 

There are new IQ tests out now that require no knowledge of reading, and no knowledge of mathematics. They can be explained without any use of English. A space alien could take one of those tests. I am confident the space alien would get a perfect score in record time.

With these new tests it is still true that Ashkenazi Jews get the highest average scores, followed by East Asians, followed by white Gentiles of European ancestry. Negroes still tend to score poorly on the new tests.

Of course, I am talking of averages. There are some Negroes who score higher on all the tests than some Ashkenazi Jews.

 

When we talk about Asians it is necessary to distinguish between East Asians and the other Asians. East Asians have higher IQ averages and lower rates of crime and illegitimacy than all other races with the possible exception of Ashkenazi Jews. Ashkenazi Jews have higher IQ averages than East Asians. They may have lower rates of crime and illegitimacy, but I have not found data on that.

By East Asians I mean Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese.

 

But that is exactly your argument; Black people don't know what saucers are or yachts.

You seem very confused. If there is no scientific evidence for the existence of race than how are the concepts of a cup and saucer effecting these non existent black people at high rates than other, also non existent races?

 

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2006 College & University
Guidance, Scholarships, Money and Info Gateways
(For Students, Parents, College Advisors, Mentors,
and Cultural Groups)
==========================

SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity: 2003

In recent years the noted pattern of test scores has reflected similar numbers--
Editor, 2005

SAT Ethnic Group Scores (Math/Verbal+total)

• American Indian---482/480 (962)
• Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)

Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)

• White-----534/529 (1063)
• Other ----513/501 (1014)

Source: www.collegeboard.com

Average ACT Composite Score by Race/Ethnicity, 2003
----------------------------------------------------

• African American ----16.9
• American Indian---18.7
• Caucasian---- 21.7
• Mexican American----18.3
• Asian American---- 21.8
• Hispanic----19.0
• Other ----19.3
• Multiracial-----20.9
• Prefer Not to Respond -----21.8
• No Response-----20.1

Source: www.act.org

http://www.blackexcel.org/06-sat-act-scores-by-race-ethnicity.htm

 

Now I understand what I saw on my son university graduation - our US universities are racists, full of racist Asian supremacy. The more advanced title - less and less Whites, even less Blacks, but plenty of Asians!

"Unity in Diversity, End Racism!"
"White Color is Beautiful, Racism is Ugly."
"No Room for Racism."
"Break the Chains of Racism, Embrace Equality."

 

If mental aptitude tests are culturally biased, why do East Asians tend to score better than white Gentiles of European descent?

Mental Aptitude tests of all sorts have proved their ability to predict academic and economic success. That is what they are designed to do, not to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion.

 

Whites raised in lower middle class families tend to score better on the SAT than blacks raised in upper middle class families.

 

So what? Did the tests know which race was taking them? How many of those black kids sat in the same classrooms as the white kids the did better?

 

Probably most of them. Because their parents were affluent we can be reasonably confident that they attended well financed public schools. Some may have attended private schools.

 

You do know that not all white people are "affluent", right? And if their kid is sitting next to a black kid they're getting the same education.