Rational Debate No Longer Exists

That is nebulous. So when two people share an interest in the earth being flat then the reality is that it is?

 

One based on unadulterated fact.

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You could try logic instead.

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Reason based on verifiable facts is not subjective.

Feelings based on personal values are subjective.

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The termites were active, though.

 

I think part of the problem is the short burst nature of forum posting, in old style debating you'd lay out your entire case and then others would be given the same amount of time to lay out theirs. An outcome would be decided peacefully and the winner would accept gracefully.

I would hesitate to call what happens on the forum debating, nevertheless it is what it is. It can be interesting and at other times infuriating when a conversation digress towards insults, political point scoring or conversion/preaching instead of factual presentation.

Also many of the main topics on the forum i.e. politics, religion are topics you would absolutely avoid if you wish to pursue a civil conversation with someone you don't know well in real life. They are simply too sensitive for most people.

 

Of course it's nebulous. If we speak of just debating, there's only a handful of things for us to choose from that fit the term, but rational, on the other hand, that's a hard thing to line up between two people; what's rational for one may not be for another, so two people who want such a thing will recognize it when they see it, even if they can't put into words what it is they think they want or have found.

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That is particulary true when the authority they believe in is themselves!.

 

What is unadulterated fact? Or for that matter what is adulterated fact?

 

It is also the change in the culture, IMO. Rationality, facts, the scientific method.. these things are old fashioned & archaic, in the New Progresso World. They want reality show hysteria! Accusation is enough, due process & evidence is not needed. Passion & rage are much more fun than cold hard facts.

Note the Obama outrage over Trump. He was more indignant over Trump than the orlando shooter. His voice shook.. you could see his rage & righteous indignation, while the talk about the muslim shooter was measured & dispassionate.

I completely agree.. very little of what transpires on the forums qualifies as 'debate'.. most of it is propaganda, which is the preferred method of persuasion. It is much easier, because you don't need to follow any reasoning, or have facts, or make a logical case.. just assert your beliefs with conviction, & express outrage over anyone who disagrees. Rational rebuttals are no longer needed, as aggrieved indignation over the 'hate' or 'racism' of the other person overrides any need to respond with reason or civility.

It is an indicator of the Death of Reason in our culture, & the Rise of Anti-science. Mandates, based on some phony narrative that has been built through propaganda memes, take the place of evidence, facts, & logical conclusions. The reformation brought us the Age of Reason, the Enlightenment, & a growing, effective knowledge base. The progressive left is driving us backwards.. back to the dark ages.. where the ruling elite dictate Truth, & any dissenters are persecuted. EVERY institution they control, which is almost all of them, uses decree & conformity to promote their agenda. Critical thinking is not allowed. Skepticism is banned.. you must believe their mandates or you are a heretic. The parallels to the dark ages are frightening.

Global warming, soft drinks, immigration, evolution, socialism, redistribution, guns.. just about every progressive meme out there is driven by a phony narrative based on bigotry & mandated belief. These are not rational conclusions based on empirical facts, but dictated Truth, with mandated conformity. Any dissenters are declared heretics, & viciously attacked for daring to oppose the ruling elite's religious beliefs. Welcome back, dark ages.. we thought we were through with you, but you weren't through with us.

 

The results of peer reviewed and replicated research.

 

It seems to me that petty bitterness is all that we have left in common. Maybe this is too pessimistic. I hope it is, but I lack in great faith.

 

If a source can be changed that easily, it evidently wasn't that reliable. These sources in question have to be as solid and verified themselves as possible, of course.

Sure, sure; a lot of things are regularly wrong. But scientifically-executed, peer-reviewed and well-supported studies are the best option we have at the moment, since truth is pretty evasive. If these are unreliable, so is absolutely everything, and thinking of all information as unreliable isn't too epistemically responsible.

 

Add to this the fact that through 12 years our schools do not manage to teach a kid in the basics of Philosophy (logic, logical fallacy, what constitutes a valid argument) and Civics ( Principles on which the nation was founded (individual rights and freedoms), legitimacy of authority and so on) and you have a toxic mess.

We fast moving towards a totalitarian system of indentured slavery.