referendum: Leave the United States of America

Fiscal conservatism works at the state level. Republican governors have done amazing things.

But the federal government is an evil, hungry, and insatiable beast. We've lost all control over it.

 

Northern Liberals?

I thought it was Republicans defeating the mean ol' Democrats?

Are you now confirming that the Republicans were liberals and the Democrats were conservatives?

 

What's stopping you from leaving the United States now?

 

Yes, that must be it. It can't be because some people believe in a system of self rule, Human equality, Natural Rights, & individual freedom & responsibility. ANYONE who dares to question the progressive left's version of utopia is automatically a racist, misogynistic homophobe, who wants to live in the 19th century...

Do you people really believe this crap? You think your propaganda memes, with the ONLY purpose to distort & smear your ideological enemies is going to deceive all the people, all the time?

Give it up. Try actually debating the issues, instead of your phony narratives, caricatures, & straw men. I have no hope of this, as i think the left is stuck in propaganda mode, with spin & distortion as the only tools of public discourse. Maybe it will keep working for you, but i hope that people return to reason & sanity, as the basis for solving our social problems.

You hit all the buzzwords.. played all the cards.. made all the narratives in a single paragraph. At least you are concise.

 

Liberals will lose a civil war..I'm not worried

Liberals don't even know what a man is and they hate guns...well be just fine

 

Any state that leaves the republic will be tasked with replacing the infrastructure it created and maintains, providing the benefits, protecting itself from threat, making trade agreements with the guys they dissed, and God Forbid they get a natural disaster without FEMA support..

 

It is sufficient to simply VOTE them out of any position of political power and authority.

We Non-Progressive-Fascists, need to simply band together and vote out of office the offenders where ever they can be found: Senators, House Reps, Judges, Governors, Mayors, State Congressmen, City Councilmen, School board members, .... hell, even the office of dog catcher!

We do not need to have either side secede from the United States, we need only drive the Democrats from power in every place they are found!

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I love how the OP makes this about liberals when Vermont, Hawaii and California want out more than Texas.

 

Unfortunately....it seems likely something resembling the opposite is poised to actually happen. The decision to put Donald Trump as the standard bearer is having a seriously detrimental effect on the Party and is likely to get even worse in the coming months. This may very well make November a terrible month for down ticket Republicans and tilt our congress.

 

Stop being pedantic, you know exactly what I mean. A system in which popular elections play a pivotal role in the allocation of political power--moving on.

The rest of this just reads like pure emotion. The only thing I got out of this is that you don't like white men. It just completely avoids the issue by using ad hominem. I'm going to be writing a thread about this excessively used debate tactic soon, and I hope you will participate.

Believe it or not, secessionist movements, historically, haven't always been about the patriarchy trying to subjugate minorities and women. Believe it or not, there are other reasons people might want to secede!

Frankly, I don't even care about this issue much, but I find the level of debate coming from the left sorely lacking, as evidenced by your post.

 

If the Non-Progressive-Fascist people of America, those who oppose Hillary and the Democratic Parties push toward Fascism and Totalitarian Statism...

If we are so foolish to let the nomination of Trump, a flawed candidate, and rather comical political blow hard...

If we are so foolish to let our disdain at Trump cause U.S. to support Hillary and the Progressive-Fascists...

Then we deserve the purges and mass murder the Lefties will commit a decade from now, when the "Other-People's-Money" runs out.

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LOL. And Conservatives can't shoot worth a darn. Even Stephen.

 

Hillary plays at fascism, Trump quotes Mussolini and advocated putting Muslims in camps... But voting for Trump is what we should do to prevent fascism? Really?

The fact is that the Republic is dead, this election just makes it official and it doesn't matter if the old woman or the orange guy wins.

 

Back to the basics.

Every state that is a member of the United States was admitted by the mutual consent of the Congress and the State legislature. At a minimum it would require the mutual consent of both (under contract law) for a state to withdraw from the United States.

The United States Congress will never consent to any state "skipping out on it's debt obligation" to the United States Treasury. In simple terms any state wanting to withdraw is going to have to come up with enough money to pay off it's share of the national debt based upon apportionment of that debt.

So if you want to figure out how much any state needs to come up with then look up that state and find out what percentage of the US population lives there and multiply that percentage by the national debt (I assume $20 trillion).

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

For example Texas, with the second highest population, would have to come up with $1,746 billion to pay off it's portion of the national debt. Wyoming, the least populated state, would only owe about $37.8 billion.

Any state that attempted to leave without the consent of the US Congress would be in rebellion and the US military would suppress that insurrection.

 

There's a third choice. Gary Johnson (L) but before he becomes a viable option he needs to make it into the Presidential Debates. That requires a 15% polling statistic so if we, the American people, want an alternative to Trump and Hillary we need to support Johnson now even if we later decide to not vote for him in November.

 

I know Trump does it to himself, and I wouldn't vote for him but Donald's quote of Mussolini was a very harmless quote. "I'd rather spend 100 days as a lion rather than one as a sheep." If Trump hadn't retweeted it, but simply posted it himself would ANYONE take any offense to this statement?

The answer is no. There are things Trump had done indeed, but the focus on the irrelevant crap is the reason he's where he is. Had people focused on the real aspects of it, they could've defeated Trump.

 

I am all for Florida leaving the US.

 

Logically if people would have focused on the fact that Trump was appealing to the racists, the xenophobes, the misogynists, and the religious intolerants that resulted in the endorsements of the White Supremacy hate groups like the KKK Trump would have been soundly defeated in the GOP primaries.

 

Get back to us when Florida has the $1.3 trillion to pay off it's share of the roughly $20 trillion national debt that it owes to the US Treasury and then we can discuss Florida leaving the United States.

 

How about you come take it.

 

Not a problem because the US Military would be called upon to stop any insurrection against the United States by any state attempting to leave without repaying the borrowing by the US Treasury made upon behalf of the people of all the states.

 

Cool, they can try. But they wouldn't. Hard to demand repayment of money from a state when billions are given to other nations that burn our flag and no attempt to recover that money is made.

 

I don't think people understand why people are angry, so let me take a stab at it for everyone: After Obama's proclamation of "hope and change" in 2008, this is what we ended up getting: A horrible ACA bill, various ripples in the ME, none of it any good(and botched even worse), we had the god awful stimulus and bailout(which didn't amount to much). And Obama got himself saved big time by fracking(which he doesn't like, and neither does Hillary)

In the face of this ineptitude, which somehow exceeds the ineptitude of the last guy(Bush). The American People see a dysfunctional and incapable government. Most people don't care about who Donald Trump "appeals" to. Again, 8-9 months in and no one knows how to actually beat Donald.

You beat Donald, by presenting YOUR case for why you should be President. "Donald be racist" is NOT a case. As much as they'd like it to be one.

 

If we take Texas as an example then 9% of those billions given away was on behalf of the Texans regardless of whether they agree or not.

Of course we've already had one attempt by states to rebel against the Constitutional government of the United States. Those traitors to the government of the United States were addressed by the US military and their insurrection was extinguished. The same thing would happen today. Sherman burned Atlanta to the ground and the same thing could happen to Houston, Tampa or Charlotte today.

The People of the United States will not tolerate the traitor or an insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States.

 

That's fine. Regressives are a drag on society anyway.
But, where are you going to go? Russia?
Maybe you like the way the Chinese run things instead?
What you ain't doing is taking part of my country and calling it leaving.
Regressives tried than once before and got their asses handed to them, and it would be the same this time.
If you hate our country, you can leave, or you can try to learn how to exercise your civic duty in an intelligent way.
You ain't breaking us up to nurse your grudges.