Reincarnation of Cain and Abel as Moses and Jethro?

Using non-LDS videos and talks doesn't prove anything about what the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You can start with the 13 Articles of Faith. There is no teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith that he believed in reincarnation or multiple probations on this earth. We get one chance here on earth. If we allow the Light of Christ direct us from getting caught up in social and political beliefs then those who didn't have a full chance to hear and accept the Gospel will have that opportunity in Spirit Prison after our death on this earth. You will not come back to this earth to try again. While most of us would love another chance knowing what we know now, it isn't going to happen. So, please don't spread rumors about Joseph Smith.

 

Interesting - thanks for the info.

 

Joseph Smith managed to convince several people that the angel Moroni had revealed several golden tablets with secret information on the to him and then caused them to disappear before anyone else saw them.

Since he convinced great numbers of people of the veracity of these statements and the validity of this information one would think that Smith's powers of persuasion were truly phenomenal until one realizes that the secret info says that men may have several wives and the marriages may be arranged to very young girls without the consent of either the girls themselves or even the girl's families in some circumstances

Is this true? Is it also true that the Mormons were chased out of Nauvoo because they were kidnapping girls? Did Mormons massacre a wagon train of settlers passing through Deseret at a place called Mountain Meadows to abduct their younger children? I researched this on the Internet but the results are equivocal at best. Does anyone here know of conclusive sources?

 

If I were you, I would first consider the source of these accusations. You will find that these are from either anti-Mormons or excommunicated Mormons without exceptions.
As to the first question, Joseph Smith showed the plates to several other people for the purpose of having witnesses. If you read the first pages of the Book of Mormon, you will see the testimony of three witnesses and then of an additional eight witnesses. You may include possibly Emma Smith, Joseph's wife at the time. I'm sure she saw them however she was not one of the 11 witnesses that signed their name to the seeing of the Plates. Also, there was an account of the writings on the plates written down and taken to a professor as stated in Joseph Smith History 1, "63 Sometime in this month of February, the aforementioned Mr. Martin Harris came to our place, got the characters which I had drawn off the plates, and started with them to the city of New York. For what took place relative to him and the characters, I refer to his own account of the circumstances, as he related them to me after his return, which was as follows: 64 “I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated, and he said that they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters. He gave me a certificate, certifying to the people of Palmyra that they were true characters, and that the translation of such of them as had been translated was also correct. I took the certificate and put it into my pocket, and was just leaving the house, when Mr. Anthon called me back, and asked me how the young man found out that there were gold plates in the place where he found them. I answered that an angel of God had revealed it unto him. 65 “He then said to me, ‘Let me see that certificate.’ I accordingly took it out of my pocket and gave it to him, when he took it and tore it to pieces, saying that there was no such thing now as ministering of angels, and that if I would bring the plates to him he would translate them. I informed him that part of the plates were sealed, and that I was forbidden to bring them. He replied, ‘I cannot read a sealed book.’ I left him and went to Dr. Mitchell, who sanctioned what Professor Anthon had said respecting both the characters and the translation.”
I take it that perhaps Martin either had a second copy of the writings or he gave Professor Anthon another piece of paper that he tore up. But, typical of anti-Mormons behavior of that time period as well as today.

As far as Joseph Smith's "power of persuasion" he had a speech impediment. So, I doubt that. He did have the Light of Christ and eventually the Gift of the Holy Ghost. But, so did those who recognized the truth of the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and The Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-day Saints as distinguished from the Saints of the time when Jesus walked the Earth). As he had the Gospel correctly revealed to him from the Lord, he asked the people to study and pray about the before accepting them. In fact, the scriptures we use are cannonized by the members of the Church by vote. As we read them today, The Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Mormon and the Bible, we are commanded to study and pray about them to receive conformation for ourselves that they are of God. So, this idea of brainwashing is redundant. We believe the same thing today with our present day Prophets as well. Study and pray to receive personal revelation by the Holy Ghost that these things are true.

Polygamy is nothing new. Abraham, David and possibly some of the Apostles were polygamists. It certainly isn't for most people. In fact, not for those who are High Priests or Bishops today. Actually, it's not for anyone today who wants to maintain membership in the Church as it was put aside back in the 1890's when Utah joined the U.S. As far as young girls being "sealed" that is a different concept all together in which you will need to study the meaning of "sealings" back in that day. As the concept of sealing for all eternity was first given, it was well misunderstood. We didn't have cell phones or internet to quickly explain anything like this. At first, members were sealed to other members of the same sex and opposite sex as well. Many of the Brethren sealed themselves to Joseph Smith. The young 14 year old girl, Helen Kimball that anti-Mormons use in this example was first asked by her father to be sealed to Joseph Smith. She objected because she had her own aspirations of marriage and sealing to another at some point. Her point as she wrote in her journals was that she would be married and sealed but would have no children if she did this. The "marriage" and "sealing" were the concept of being tied to Joseph Smith to get to the Celestial Kingdom and her father felt that was the way their family would make it there. Again, misconception of what the sealing power of Elijah was all about. There is no indication of facts that this marriage was consummated. In fact, all the writings on this from people from the time say there was not a sexual relation. And, the "marriage" really wasn't a marriage since it was against the law at that time as it is still now. You can marry and have sex with the same sex, a cow or donkey, but not polygamy with the opposite sex. Strange, huh... You can look up a lot on the internet about Helen Kimball.
There are many sights including the Church website on these issues. We don't hide anything. Nothing to hide. I like a couple of sites, Fair Mormon.org and Jeff Lindsay.org as well for many answers.

As far a Mountain Meadow Massacre, it happened. But, not in the way anti-Mormons like to portray it. Here is from the Church's website the official account: "
In September 1857, a branch of territorial militia in southern Utah composed entirely of Latter-day Saints, along with some American Indians they recruited, laid siege to a wagon train of emigrants traveling from Arkansas to California. The militiamen carried out a deliberate massacre, killing 120 men, women, and children in a valley known as Mountain Meadows. Only 17 small children—those believed to be too young to be able to tell what had happened there—were spared. This event is perhaps the most tragic episode in the history of the Church.

The arrival of the wagon train in Utah Territory occurred in the midst of a period of “reformation” within the Church. Concerned about spiritual complacency, Brigham Young and other Church leaders delivered a series of sermons in which they called the Saints to repent and renew their spiritual commitments.1 At times during the reformation, Brigham Young, his counselor Jedediah M. Grant, and other leaders preached with fiery rhetoric, warning against the evils of sin and those who dissented from or opposed the Church.2 Such preaching led to increased strain between the Latter-day Saints and their relative few neighbors in Utah, including federally appointed officials.

This tension intensified in early 1857 when United States president James Buchanan received reports from some of the federal officials in Utah alleging that Governor Brigham Young and the Latter-day Saints in the territory were rebelling against the authority of the federal government. A strongly worded memorial from the Utah legislature (composed predominantly of Latter-day Saints) to the federal government convinced federal officials the reports were true. President Buchanan decided to replace Brigham Young as governor and, in what became known as the Utah War, sent an army to Utah to escort his replacement.

Latter-day Saints feared that the oncoming army—some 1,500 troops, with more to follow—would renew the depredations of Missouri and Illinois and again drive the Saints from their homes. In addition, Parley P. Pratt, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, was murdered in Arkansas in May 1857.3 News of the murder—as well as newspaper reports from the eastern United States that celebrated the crime—reached Utah weeks later. As these events unfolded, Brigham Young declared martial law in the territory, directed missionaries and settlers in outlying areas to return to Utah, and guided preparations to resist the army. Defiant sermons given by President Young and other Church leaders, combined with the impending arrival of an army, helped create an environment of fear and suspicion in Utah.4

Emigrant families from Arkansas formed a caravan led by Alexander Fancher and John Baker. As the wagon train traveled through Salt Lake City, the emigrants clashed verbally with local Latter-day Saints over where they could graze their cattle. Some of the members of the wagon train became frustrated because they had difficulty purchasing much-needed grain and other supplies from local settlers, who had been instructed to save their grain as a wartime policy. Aggrieved, some of the emigrants threatened to join incoming troops in fighting against the Saints.5

Although some Saints ignored these threats, other local Church leaders and members in Cedar City, Utah, advocated violence. Isaac C. Haight, a stake president and militia leader, sent John D. Lee, a militia major, to lead an attack on the emigrant company. When the president reported the plan to his council, other leaders objected and requested that he call off the attack and instead send an express rider to Brigham Young in Salt Lake City for guidance. But the men Haight had sent to attack the emigrants carried out their plans before they received the order not to attack. The emigrants fought back, and a siege ensued.

Over the next few days, events escalated, and Latter-day Saint militiamen planned and carried out a massacre. They lured the emigrants from their circled wagons with a false flag of truce and, aided by Paiute Indians they had recruited, slaughtered them. Between the first attack and the final slaughter, 120 were killed. The express rider returned two days after the massacre. He carried a letter from Brigham Young telling local leaders to “not meddle” with the emigrants and to allow them to pass through southern Utah in peace.6 The militiamen sought to cover up the crime by placing the entire blame on local Paiutes, some of whom were also members of the Church.

Two Latter-day Saints were eventually excommunicated from the Church for their participation, and a grand jury that included Latter-day Saints indicted nine men. Only one participant, John D. Lee, was convicted and executed for the crime, which fueled false allegations that the massacre had been ordered by Brigham Young.7

In the early 2000s, the Church made diligent efforts to learn everything possible about the massacre. Historians in the Church History Department scoured archives throughout the United States for historical records; every Church record on the massacre was also opened to scrutiny. A resulting book published by Oxford University Press in 2008 by authors Ronald W. Walker, Richard E. Turley Jr., and Glen M. Leonard concluded that while intemperate preaching about outsiders by Brigham Young, George A. Smith, and other leaders contributed to a climate of hostility, Young did not order the massacre. Rather, verbal confrontations between individuals in the wagon train and southern Utah settlers created great alarm, particularly within the context of the Utah War and other adversarial events. A series of tragic decisions by local Church leaders—who also held key civic and militia leadership roles in southern Utah—led to the massacre.8

In 1990, relatives of the Arkansas emigrants joined with representatives of the Paiute Nation, Latter-day Saint residents of southern Utah, and Church leaders in dedicating a memorial at Mountain Meadows. Rex E. Lee, president of Brigham Young University and descendant of John D. Lee, held hands with victims’ descendants and thanked them “for your Christian-like willingness to forgive.”9 On the 150th anniversary of the massacre, President Henry B. Eyring taught, “The gospel of Jesus Christ that we espouse, abhors the cold-blooded killing of men, women, and children. Indeed, it advocates peace and forgiveness. What was done here long ago by members of our Church represents a terrible and inexcusable departure from Christian teaching and conduct.”- https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/mountain-meadows-massacre?lang=eng

As mentioned before, communication, the wild west lifestyle and the way things were in those days is different than it is today. To judge people by the way they lived, the laws that were in their time, the norms and so on with today's is simply wrong. There are many cases of anti-Mormon attacks on the members of the Church, such as" Hann's Mill massacre by Missourians and the extermination order of the then Governor of Missouri.

 

Perhaps I am way, way, way off on this idea but what you just wrote is accurate.....
depending on how we define the word "WE" because I volunteered to Messiah Yeshua - Jesus that He can
clone as many versions of me as He wants............ or can think up a reasonable use of them at least........
and I would go back into four dimensional space - time .... in any point in time from Adam and Eve until now....... (including perhaps even before Adam ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil that near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai states was a fig tree)....... so Messiah Yeshua - Jesus now having the ability to clone me.......
by implications leads to Him also being able to clone everybody else as well........
and spin off new versions of us in Applied Multiverse Theory...... (applied by Messiah Yeshua - Jesus to whom all judgment has been given by the Ancient of Days the Father)!

https://near-death.com/future/

To my thinking Ezekiel chapter thirty seven....
Revelations chapter twenty......
Romans chapters nine, ten and eleven combined with some other important statements.....
prepare the stage for Applied Multiverse Theory..... and this statement would be important in all of that as well.

https://vimeopro.com/vfndc/final-quest-the-call-the-harvest/video/414170858

Cougarbear.... am I correct in assuming that a high percentage of Latter day Saints would probably agree with this assertion by the gifted Rick Joyner that

This was part of my offer to come back an infinite number of times in order to pay off the debt / guilt of Azazel..... much like Messiah Yeshua - Jesus has paid off my debt and my guilt!

14,900 Latter day Saints have already read this page which includes my e-mail from 2010 to Sanhedrin Rabbi Yeshuayahu Hollander.....

Rabbi Yeshayahu Hollander did reply... pretty much that same day....

 

The Prophet Joseph Smith has seriously impressed me by what he taught on the State of the Dead .....
In comparison to any other large branch of Christianity that I know of..... this article taken from his writings on the state of the dead
seems to be truly quite brilliant as well as accurate.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...apter-41-the-postmortal-spirit-world?lang=eng

There is information on this page ... especially post number sixty seven that Latter day Saint scholars would tend to look at somewhat differently than an Orthodox Christian would......


http://www.politicalforum.com/index...s-for-the-role-of-elijah-needed.499830/page-3

The man who wrote this on Yom Kippur 1991 followed the steps of a goat that had been released as it walked through the Valley of the sons of Hinnom...... no kidding....... and he tells me about his doing this about twenty years after that... .around 2011........

I believe that Mordecai made my offer beginning after Yom Kippur 1990 legal within Judaism and now as a part of Judaism.... due to Mordecai being a follower of Rabbi Nachman of Breslov.......


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachman_of_Breslov

 

Near death is not death. Once dead, you are dead. Only the Lord can raise the dead. This is not reincarnation. There is no proof of other dimensions. They are just theories. When you have a near death experience, your spirit leaves your body and the veil can be lifted off your mind in the Lord so chooses. It isn't that heaven is somewhere else as it is right above us but we are unable to see it because of a veil placed over our mind. In any event, Joseph Smith never taught reincarnation is true. Quite the contrary.