Romney Vulture Capitalist Another Example Of What Is Wrong With Capitalism?

This guy made his Bain company successful by firing loads of people and sending them on welfare but everyones saying hes a good capitalist and that is true.

Mitt cannot run on creating jobs as a President when he lead an equity firm that invested in companies that go bankrupt only to flip them for a profit at the expense of the livelyhoods of the working class as a typical revered capitalist.

It is an example of vulture capitalism where they go in on bad companies fire everyone to make it profitable then selling it to get rich

 

l

So what would be the alternative?

Let what you acknowledge are "bad companies" go bankrupt? Who is going to benefit from that?

Ultimately, if you want people to have jobs, the companies they work for have to be profitable.

To save jobs, you have to save profits first.

 

I've worked for a couple of failed companies over the years. You can usually see the writing on the wall far in advance and if you're smart, you'll get out while the getting is good. The signs are things like supplies start dwindling. Notification is made that company contributions to 401k's will cease. You have to run to the bank to cash you paycheck (to beat everyone else) or automatic deposits are late. Then finally, usually on the Monday following the last day of the pay period, you get to work and the door is locked. Not only are you suddenly jobless, but you have to sue to get that last two weeks pay.

If a company is in such bad shape that closure is eminent, having a 3rd party come in and try to rebuild it and possibly save it, and your job, and you stick it out with them in hopes that they're successful....well, the doors would have eventually closed anyway...maybe that's not as bad as everyone is thinking.

80% of all small businesses fail in the first 2 years. If Bain bought them all out and their record of saving 70% of their acquisitions. Do the math..that ain't half bad. If saving that 70% of companies on the road to failure is Vulture Capitalism..so be it. It sounds like it works well for a lot of people.

 

The scenario you painted, isn't all of what I've heard concerning Bain Capital; there is more to it than that.

 

I'm an avid Paul supporter. Our country is at a drastic hour and we need drastic change. Everything the government has their hand in, the government is destroying, and it has its hand in almost everything. I think the only free market is illegal drugs, and Lord knows business is always good for those cats. They never stop hiring.

But for the record. Romney is the 1st mainstream politician to say we need tariffs on Chinese imports. Well, he hinted to it. For all his flip flopping, I have seen him say things people don't like. If a democrat had hinted to it, the right would have nuked him with "protectionist, isolationist swine!" rhetoric. For the sake of American workers, with all their bull(*)(*)(*)(*), I thought the democrats would be the 1st to go against free trade. I can't see how any would support them at this point. With all the hoopla surrounding "intellectual leftism", I find it interesting at this juncture in my life, that the right is the side of America that is going to war with itself. Spiritually, philosophically, economically. It is a beautiful thing. I have no doubt that if Romney starts tearing up free trade agreements, jobs will start coming home. Not those that are purely labor intensive, or adversely effect the environment, but those that are barely saving in labor. Yesterday is gone and we can't get it back. Romney is rich. He doesn't need the kickbacks of special interests. Obama is not an option. If Romney could even get 30% of the jobs to come back, we would feel it overnight. I want Paul. I expect to get Paul. But Obama isn't an option.

 

It is just too easy to claim that. There ARE long and boring lists of things that NO ONE has or likely could do better than government. Of course, those who for whatever particular reasons prefer to over-criticize government don't seriously consider government successes.

In the case of problems with government, lately I've pointed out to many... the corruption, brought on by CAPITALISTIC VENTURES themselves. Really, one of the absolute greatest problems with "government", is the CORRUPTION brought-on via MONEY.

And we the people (aka "government") in no uncertain terms, MUST get a handle (or a foot) on that (criminally dangerous, narcissistic lust); otherwise, the nation WILL decay and not too long after those "vultures/vipers" looking only to seize a 'profit' for themselves, have financially RAPED everyone of they were 'allowed' to.

Capitalism is but a 'tool'... if improperly regulated or unregulated... capitalism is as much a possible curse as ANY "...ism".

 

I like you JC, and respect your opinion. I myself am working class. I have no riches to my name. However, I spend lots of time thinking about stuff, and as big a weirdo as everyone on this site, for we are the schmucks who think things can change. THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN CREATE A STATE DEPARTMENT THAT YOU CAN KEEP FROM CORRUPTION. It is impossible. Humans are fallible. We have a behemoth for a government. The wealth gap is wider than it has ever been. People don't get (*)(*)(*)(*) for their labor from the devaluation of our currency thanks to "central planning". Our state department represents a global entity and only serves now as the prison warden for the work camp that is our nation. And through it all, the elite get away with more than they ever have before. At what point do people wake up and realize with every new power we give the state, it will be used against us?

 

I see your points. Still, our only real hope is to fight for and implement the best (if flawed) checks/balances possible. Staunch, irreverent capitalists will NOT 'regulate' themselves. Better, that they are reasonably challenged (as they are being today), rather than not at all. I'm certain of that.

 

Just do me a favor. Try and research economics, small gov vs a large state apparatus, free from social blinders. I know being a black homosexual is not an easy fate in a country with many ignorant folks. But both sides, whether you are talking social conservatives, or social liberals, have been bamboozled into fighting over stuff that wont amount to (*)(*)(*)(*) if we lose OUR nation. Who cares about abortion if we are part of a global entity that can dictate law with supremacy like our federal government now does over the states? We are losing our country. Learn what she was about. Learn how governments were when our founders fought so hard to make this one. We are being yanked back under the old system of serfs and pharaohs, and both party's status quo are in on the charade.

 

he is suppose to find ways to improve the business so that everyone can keep their jobs, all he did was move capital around to make a profit

successful businesses are suppose to grow not downsize

 

I've heard/read 'experts' on ALL sides for MANY MANY years. I've watched what government and business has done and been directly involved in both.

Don't think that you have the only or best education on the matter which we're addressing.

The bottom line I have seen over the last 35+ years, is that MONEY has CORRUPTED the system (among other things). After all these years, I'm not about to revert what I've witnessed (in reality) to some text-book understanding of what is going on in reality.

We may have a different approach to solutions, but I think we see the same things.

Without proper checks and balances (regulation), things will just be terrible.

 

Obviously, there are certain things we want in there. Child labor protection. Anti-trust laws. PROTECTIONISM. We don't want company stores reopening. I just think we must come to grips with the fact that ALL of the top now work together. Why own slaves when you can all share them? Let the other guy be the "company store" and there is no one to point their finger at. We need a massive overhaul, and more needs to go than be added.

P.S.-Wasn't trying to insult you on the economics thing.

 

They saved 70 percent of companies by firing employees, all they did was transfer capital from their bank to the companies corporate account

The right thing to do is invest their capital in ways that would save the business and cause it to grow instead of flipping it for a profit by firing employees who were victimized by bad business practices

 

Yes. You have it right. Essentially, more Americans need to regard the reality that PEOPLE matter most (not money).

 

It is GOVERNMENT that signed over the right to regulate trade to the WTO.
It was Clinton who signed in the China trade agreement and NAFTA. The 2 combined doing more damage to American wealth than if 10 nukes hit.
Obama has done NOTHING but bailout the type of companies Romney represents, to save the Wall St Romney worships, while borrowing more from foreign nations and signing MORE free trade agreements.
I know your hearts are in the right place, but you have checked your brains at the door.

 

I worked for a company that was 'acquired' by an outfit like Bain Capital. One of the reasons that the company was failing was that it ran on the 'good old boy' system fueled by the Peter Principle on steroids. Some background;
up until the mid 90's the company was small and profitable. They made the decision to enlarge and expand services. They did some head hunting and hired some {management} people. The folks they hired had never worked in management They were somewhat skilled in what they were experienced at doing, but they were not managers. (when I got there, systems that were put in place by them were old, ineffective and inefficient) The department that I worked in was run using an intimidation and sweat shop philosophy. Those 'not so good' managers never considered instilling company loyalty and a sense of pride in their employees. They preferred using fear of losing the job if employes didn't 'toe the line'.
In 2000 there was an exodus of 'bosses' upstairs. The managers (mis-managers actually) that were hired in, were, in one fell swoop, moved upstairs. They were given huge salary increases and titles like 'operations manager', 'plant manager' 'general manager' and 'csr manager'. The operations manager and the plant manager did virtually the same job. The general manager did nothing. The csr manager had nothing to manage in that the csr's already were doing the job that required little to no 'management'. All the 'new bosses' were making 6 figure salaries. They had car allowances and expense accounts. What they didn't have was any idea as to how to run a company, make it grow and make it profitable. By 2006-7 it was becoming obvious that we were being grossly mis-managed. In early 2008 the owners bailed. They sold the company to a national corporation that was in the process of buying up their competition, closing down some of their acquisitions, consolidating others. We were merged with one of our competitors. The 'good old boys' club upstairs was let go, new management was installed. Some new up to date equipment was purchased. We could see that the new owners were trying to salvage our company. But it was too late. The old management crew had inflicted too much damage. There was too much ill will directed toward the company by ex-clients that simply refused to return. In 2010, after 2 years in the red, the owners shut the company down. Last year they managed to sell it to some local investors and the company is up and running again. It's back in the same position the original company was in prior to their expansion efforts. It's even hired back some of the same 'original people' from the pre-expansion days.
Point being; Some companies fail because 1) they don't know what they're doing, 2) they simply shoot themselves in the foot. No matter what, people loose jobs if associated with these sort of companies. Whether or not there is a Bain Capital out there has little to nothing to do with it.

 

they knew what they were doing, that company like most others failed during the great reccession of 2008 if it weren't for the bad economy created by private equity firms peddling bad mortgages other private equity firms like Bain couldn't come around and flip companies for profit by firing employees

private equity firms aren't businesses in the natural sense, they make their living by gaming money they aren't productive they just transfer capital around or use money to make money

brick and mortar businesses are the driving force behind the economy when they are forced to downsize because they were bought out by a swindling private equity firm they bring the economy down with them.

the right thing to do if these firms were about building the country instead of profiting for their own interests would be to find ways to keep everyone on board in the company and innovate and put their capital and greater risk than virtually no risk from what they do now and allow the company to grow instead of downsize and take sleezy easy profits at the costs of someones livelyhood

 

According to whom?

Employment is not the goal of capitalism. Profits are. Employment is a secondary benefit.

Trying to preserve jobs simply for the sake of preserving jobs is pointless. If the jobs are not productive they are a drag on the company and will eventually drag it down regardless.

And for those of you who refer to Romney as a "corporate raider" I would note that corporate raiders generally have no interest in failing companies. Corporate raiders initate takeovers of SUCCESSFUL companies in order to use their assets.

And for the liberals among you parroting these lines about Romney, please note you're parroting your heros Rick Perry and Newt Gingrich. So no whining about Perry and Gingrich in the future please.

 

It's almost humorous to me... that some imagine that one must go to school and get a "economics" degree... before they can see how the American people were just plain SCREWED, by shady guys, wearing suits, driving flashy cars and flying in planes.

I agree. Most of the problem we see today, are the results of the Viper Capitalists and their 'unhelpful' philosophies/ways. It is about 'now' that they shall cease to be as 'unimpeded' as they have been... over the last 12 years or so.

All of the American people are the "government"... not just the 'wealthy' American people.

 

I do not understand why this is a problem...The existing 'bad companies' are already on the road to failure and no one wins when that happens...

Why do those who speak of the 'failure' of capitalism always sort of forget the failures of communism (hundreds of millions dead) or socialism (vast inept taxation and an unsustainable nanny state)?

 

At some point, people have to matter too; it cannot just be about "money". That's foolish.

 

There can be no 'mattering' if there is no money...the only folk who exist in that world of 'mattering regardless of success' are charities and then money still applies, they just eliminate any expectations of success on the recipients of the largess.

 

That, is where we disagree almost fundamentally.

Nevertheless, it is likely that there will always be some form of capitalistic endeavor in the hands of living human beings. And what I'm talking about, is operating AND weighting an economic SYSTEM so that it reasonably benefits people, rather than USE THEM UP to build upon itself.

I'm making a distinction, that many do often take to extremes; I'm not talking about there being no "money" or getting 'completely' rid of the same. Reasonable people who have a decent view of the value/worth of middle class PEOPLE... understand what I'm talking about. (This isn't the first day I've shared what I'm talking about here. I've considered these things for MANY years.)

(see the above) Let's WORK to be reasonable, fair AND productive overall. PEOPLE are worth all the 'money' in the world.

 

True. The sole purpose of business is to make money. If a business has stockholders or investors, They are stockholders and investors for the sole purpose of making money. One way for a business to make money is to produce a product. The more efficiently and less costly way a business makes money, the higher the profit. Business is under no obligation to employ workers. Indeed, if a product can be produced using less workers, thus generating higher profits, it is the obligation to it's stockholders and investors to do so.

However, in order for a company to be successful and to make a profit for it's stockholders and investors, it must have customers. Someone to purchase those products. For this to happen, potential customers must have money too. Seeing how money isn't free, that potential customers must have a source of money which will allow them to purchase products, business is obligated to itself to employ and pay people. Business is obligated to it's stockholders and investors to employ and pay people.

When stockholders and investors demand more money, or they will not invest; businesses must seek alternative ways of producing products. Computerization, automation and seeking a cheaper labor force are the only ways a business can reduce the cost of producing products. By employing these alternatives it creates a customer base with little or no money to purchase products with.

The person that can come up with a way for business to make a profit that will attract stockholders and investors, and at the same time offer high employment and fair wages....well, that person will rule the world. We will finally achieve Utopia.

 

The only way the state can help people as a whole is to establish fair rules for all, with no favoritism. I'm sure you acknowledge how corrupt our system is? All the programs benefit the top. The top live longer. Social security is a way to tax the working poor to add extra to their retirement, for all collect. So those who live longer will collect more, and with the cap, the top will draw 3xs what they pay in.
Welfare is a way to artificially deflate unemployment numbers. Without it, all those people would need a job on top of the rest.
WIC and other programs. Without those helping low wage families, the devaluation of our currency would have to be addressed.
Farm subsidies, a way to keep food prices artificially high.
All taxes paid for by the middle class, to pay off the poor as to not rebel, so basically the middle class suffers all the loss of globalization, while the top reaps all the rewards.
EPA. FDA, etc. fines, licenses and fees to which are never enough to actually "punish" a large firm, just enough to make it impossible to be a newcomer in the industry. All funds returned after being flushed through the system in the form of R&D grants and the like.
School loans. The same as the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae loans. To people who shouldn't qualify, creating a bubble that WILL pop to buy time so the globalization scheme will continue as the top hope they will figure out a way to make it work. High interest debt backed by state muscle. Debt that can garnish wages to SS check.

I could go on and on. All you have to do is lose faith in the system to take a step back and see it for what it is. You are doing no one any favors by pushing for anything but the total overhaul of it. Revolution is what is needed, but so many have been duped into socialist tendencies that the same problems would just bloom again. There are always going to be people who are wealthy. The difference is with small government, you could be one of them some day. It will never happen giving their state apparatus more and more power while begging for their scraps.