Russia’s V Ukraine; the next phase

Russia, by all accounts is now going to focus most of its war efforts in eastern Ukraine. Many say that could go on for years. Should Ukraine with the help of NATO just try and defend themselves against endless Russian attacks, or at some point should they take the war more aggressively to Russia? Why should they just have their land and their civilians killed and destroyed. Let Russians at home really get a feel of war. Of course I realize this will be seen as a dangerous escalation by many people, but why should only one side be allowed to be brutally aggressive?

 

Ukraine needs to start causing the kind of damage and destruction inside Russia that Russia has inflicted on Ukraine.

 

On this we are in agreement. Maybe a few Ukrainian MiG’s should do some air strikes beyond their borders on military but not civilian targets. A Ukrainian missile that hit a military target in the Moscow area would be good too.

 

Only if Ukraine has the military backings of the US. Right now Russia has not officially declared war and neither has Ukraine so Putin is limited on how much he can mobilize. Think of it like Iraq for the US. It wasn't officially a war so even though the US could spend a lot of money it can't mobilize the same way it did in WWII. It's the same with Russia now. A large strike within Russia would give it more justification to declare official war and mobilize. Ukraine will need a large backer if it is going to fight a mobilized Russian army.

 

Yes. Although the MSM keeps referring to the current conflagration as a "war", it is anything but. Technically it is a "mugging". The ruthless super-powerful aggressor is putting the hurt on their smaller meeker neighbor for the express purpose of stealing their neighbor's wealth. It is certainly very very painful to spectate. I for one am horrified.

 

It’s hard to know for sure all the reasons and motives for this war. Is America and NATO motivated to protect a neighboring, friendly fledgling democracy? Are we motivated and inspired by Zelensky and the Ukrainians unmitigated courage? Are we motivated because the victims ethnically resemble the West? Are we motivated because Ukraine is resource rich, and not wanting those resources to fall under Putins control? Much of the world as we have all painfully seen is already too dependent on Russia’s oil and gas. America seems to have a long history of “helping” Countries(think Middle East)that “coincidentally”happen to be resource rich.

The reasons can be debated and argued to death I'm sure. But I think it adds up to NATO and America becoming even more and more involved. Neither side is likely to back down anytime soon. It appears that it will only get more violent and gruesome especially in the East.
I see that involvement evolving into more aggressively supporting Ukraine, even if that means helping them go on the offensive when they can into Russia.

 

This could be possibly a good way to bring down the Pootin monster.

Many dead Russkie soldiers and economic decline through western sanctions might possibly not be enough.

 

Who's limiting him?
That's an odd speculation, who does Putin need justification from? Last I heard you guys feared he was just gonna nuke everyone if we dared let him think this would fail.

 

It could bring him down, it could also make him even more ruthless, even nuclear. Scary times for sure. Unfortunately History has proven that the longer you wait to stand up to a bully the worse it gets. I see Ukraine, and standing with the brave Ukrainians wherever that takes us as the perfect place to stand up to Putin.

 

I agree, bro. Guys like Pootin are like rabid dogs. They'll always bite, no matter how dear you are to them. You can never treat them well enough to make them good dogs. They're lost forever. You just have to beat them to death to save your fellow humans!

Ukrainians standing currently alone at the frontline against Russkie fascism. But I'm sure others will join them soon.

 

Ukraine has no interest in becoming an aggressor. The goal is to stand their ground, protect their homeland and convince Russia to go home and stay there.

 

And, might start a world war, and still not achieve the Ukrainian goal of ending the Russian invasion; nothing "good" would come of it.

 

Yes , I’m sure that is what they would prefer to do. But like the old saying goes; the best defense is a good offense. This might take a lot of both to get the job done. I’m not sure how many people end up winning anything when they only play defense or play in fear.

 

The problem is that Russians won't go home. Comrade Pootin wants to conquer many nearby countries and collect the Slavic world under his fascist Russkie ruled empire. Russkies have always done this for many hundred years.

I fear that if Pootin is defeated, the next dictator will soon be ready to shake Russia and threaten the world.

 

Thanks to you posters; all have made good points. But I have a strong feeling that Putin's motive for this awful aggression is entirely economic. Even though Putin and his oligarch buddies are filthy rich, I feel that Putin bemoans the fact that our State of California (for example) has a much greater GDP than all of Russia. Putin just wants to add Ukraine's vast (agricultural, plus) wealth to his - I mean Russia's - paltry total.

 

Of course, Russia is an economic dwarf. But that won't get better through war against a nearby small country.

 

It could have gotten better, if he just rolled over resource rich Ukraine in a few days like many think he originally thought he would. Part of the reason we have to make this among other things as financially painful as possible for Putin.

 

The Russian Constitution is limiting him. You can't run a large country without having sets of ground rules that you need to follow. I never said he would use nukes. In fact I started a thread saying that it's irrational to think that it'd resulted in nukes unless Moscow may fal.

Anyone who thinks that he has enough power to be the sole decision maker in using nukes or to mobilize would be kidding themselves if they think he can be voted out through sanctions.

 

Something tells me that China is the weak link in all this. That is where I think Western diplomats and leaders should focus pressure. China's media is still lending credence to Russia's falsehoods about the Ukraine massacres being staged. Press China to be more reasonable and then Putin will feel desperately isolated, and perhaps relent.

 

The problem with your premise is most of the world does in fact want Russia to fail or fall , whichever one you meant. The question is how much do we let Putin threaten us with it ? Like I’ve said, stand up to the bully before he gets even bigger.

 

In a perfect world perhaps, but unfortunately there are several Countries that have their own reasons to not be on our side. China is certainly one of them. Realistically, the best we can hope for is for China to stay somewhat out of the fray, which thus far they appear to have.

 

Nobody can mobilize the same way they did in WWII. It's just to damn expensive. Russia ended WWII with well over 200 divisions, and God alone knows how many independent regiments brigades or whatever. Today they've got less than half of that. The US is even has about half or less of it WWII numbers and much of that is national guard and reserves. Britain isn't ten percent and the rest of Europe not .much if any better and that's just ground forces.

 

There's a significant difference between Russia failing in Ukraine and Moscow falling. If you're able to destroy all 200,000 troops sent into Ukraine then Russia fails in Ukraine, but the lives of the family members of the generals and the political leaders are not threatened so Moscow hasn't fallen. The generals wouldn't resort to using nukes because so far it's some other poor bastard who's dead versus themselves who would be dead if they escalate to nuclear war.

 

They don't neef to mobilize like WWII. It's an example of the difference in resources a country can draw when it has declared war versus when it says it's doing a Special Military Operation.

 

Okay but the support system for that is also much lower.