Russia Offered to End War in 2022 If Ukraine Scrapped NATO Ambitions – Zelensky Party Chief

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Bill Carson, Nov 26, 2023.

  1. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,590
    Likes Received:
    27,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not going to play this stupid game with you.
     
  2. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,742
    Likes Received:
    17,554
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We have the means. You lack the will.
     
  3. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,950
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Who is hoping for a hot war?
     
  4. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    16,723
    Likes Received:
    8,573
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Putler is trying to get NATO to take the first punch.....he's thinking my balls are as big as yours.
     
  5. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    5,706
    Likes Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Sure if Russia will move back to original borders and not object to paying reparations to rebuild what they destroyed.
    The whole affair was driven by paranoia and Russian vodka.
     
    bigfella likes this.
  6. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,950
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Unlike Hitler who apparently had only one ball:
     
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,742
    Likes Received:
    17,554
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  8. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    5,706
    Likes Received:
    5,598
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Or hold on until Trump gets in and starts drilling again lowering oil prices. Goodby export profits from oil.
     
    USVet likes this.
  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    25,375
    Likes Received:
    6,704
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What makes you think that?
     
    zoom_copter66 and Jack Hays like this.
  10. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Messages:
    6,160
    Likes Received:
    4,872
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yangforward likes this.
  11. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2012
    Messages:
    4,322
    Likes Received:
    457
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Russia and Ukraine were close to signing a deal back then but Zelensky had second thoughts after meeting with the Polish prime minister, who spoke against the peace deal. Poland is no longer providing any weapons to Ukraine because Zelensky insulted the Poles during his UN speech.

     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
    yangforward likes this.
  12. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    16,723
    Likes Received:
    8,573
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male


    That's BS....Poland strongly backs Ukraine....just more RuZZkovitch disinformation.
     
  13. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,536
    Likes Received:
    22,872
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Since I've been on this site one thing that seems to piss off people more than anything else is when you show someone their own words.

    Weird.
     
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,536
    Likes Received:
    22,872
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think we've explored that particular issue between us plenty of times. Simply put, you believe US resources are unlimited and I don't.
     
    Bill Carson likes this.
  15. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,536
    Likes Received:
    22,872
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Who was I replying to?
     
  16. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,536
    Likes Received:
    22,872
    Trophy Points:
    113

    See post #89
     
  17. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,590
    Likes Received:
    27,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You keep trying to distract from arguments and make it about the person making the argument. I stated that a hotter war has begun and you leapt instantly to accusing me of wanting that while failing to address the facts at hand, which is that Putin has launched a war against democratic Ukraine, which is also part of his greater war, cold or otherwise, against the western democratic alliance that opposes his ambitions.
     
  18. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Messages:
    6,160
    Likes Received:
    4,872
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What part of no elections, no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, banning all opposition parties, discrimination against certain ethnicities......says "democratic" to you? FFS the clown show
     
    yangforward likes this.
  19. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2016
    Messages:
    16,723
    Likes Received:
    8,573
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male



    Gee....sounds like RuZZian Federation?
     
  20. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,536
    Likes Received:
    22,872
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's because there is no hot war, at least one involving the US. So why would you mention a hot war? Is that some sort of wish?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2023
  21. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,590
    Likes Received:
    27,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So you didn't notice the war going on in Ukraine? Didn't notice Putin blaming us and the rest of NATO for it?
     
  22. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,590
    Likes Received:
    27,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I said Ukraine, not Russia.
     
    zoom_copter66 likes this.
  23. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Messages:
    51,536
    Likes Received:
    22,872
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm American. We're not in a hot war.

    Although you seem to keep wishing otherwise.
     
  24. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,590
    Likes Received:
    27,111
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There you go with that weird accusation again. Do you need me to explain it as I would to a child?

    Once upon a time there was an evil empire called the Soviet Union, and in this empire lived a gremlin called Putin. Putin loved the empire and worked hard to support it. But one day, the evil empire collapsed and several of the places it controlled became free. However, the heart of the former evil empire never became free, but instead came to be ruled over by Putin the gremlin.

    Putin the gremlin has often expressed his sadness and anger over the collapse of the evil empire, and he always blamed the Americans and the Europeans for its demise. As time passed, he came to hate them more and more, and he plotted to rebuild his lost empire and spite the Americans and Europeans for what they, in his opinion, had done to his empire, his precious.

    So he plotted and schemed, determined to get back those lands that in his view had been taken away by those decadent fools in the west. He chose to start with Ukraine, a country still weak from corruption and poverty that had endured since it gained its independence, and one where his empire had a lot of strong cultural and ethnic ties, and one that was important economically and strategically since it also controlled a large part of the Black Sea and was home to an important naval base. It was also an important land corridor and potential buffer zone between his imperial capital and the evil Europeans and Americans. He had lots of reasons to conquer it and little to fear, or so he thought, because it was not yet a member of the NATO alliance. NATO was keeping him from taking other lands that had already joined, and the leaders of Ukraine were also talking about joining, so it was time to act if he wanted to get control over that land. If he didn't act quickly, surely he would lose it forever.

    And so, he began by trying to control its government and keep it from joining NATO for as long as he could while he invested in building up his empire's military capabilities. He needed to buy time and he needed to develop enough military potency to enable him to take that land by force eventually.

    One day in 2014, the people of Ukraine revolted against his puppet leader. This was a sudden event, but one for which he was prepared, an eventuality for which he had made a plan, and so he put that plan into action. He sent soldiers into Crimea, the peninsula where his vital naval base was located, in order to ensure that it would not be lost while he prepared his next moves. This worked and he was able to take direct control over that territory and keep his base. He was pleased and his confidence grew. He also maintained a conflict in a region called the Donbas in the far east of Ukraine, keeping Ukraine's army busy away from Crimea and making it difficult if not impossible for Ukraine to join NATO due to the ongoing internal conflict, buying him the time to keep mustering his forces for the larger task ahead: the conquest of all of Ukraine, or else as much of it as he could secure -- at minimum enough of it to secure his grip over Crimea and the Black Sea, since his grip was tenuous as long as he did not control the lands to which it was connected to the north and east.

    And so the Kremlin Gremlin spent several years preparing that next step, and then the day came and he finally assembled his forces under the guise of a military exercise. He was confident that his forces were large and powerful enough, and his opponents in Ukraine and their friends in the west weak and divided enough, that a sudden invasion with over 200,000 troops would allow him to capture the capital and much if not all of Ukraine in a rapid Blitzkrieg operation. His success up to that point had perhaps left him feeling a little overconfident, a little too sure of his own genius.

    The invasion, when it came, did not go quite to plan, however. His forces faced fierce resistance, the Ukrainian government and military did not collapse, his attempt to take the capital failed completely, Ukraine's western friends did not splinter completely and fail to support Ukraine the way they had done years earlier, and his forces suffered heavy losses due to the support that they had given to Ukraine. Much to his chagrin, that support has only increased and he has been forced to muster many more troops and send them in massive waves in hopes of taking and holding just the Donbas and the vitally important lands north of Crimea. Now he finds himself in a pickle because he needs to outlast both the Ukrainian people and their will and capacity to fight, and their western friends and allies who continue to support them with weapons, munitions, training, cash, humanitarian aid, and much more besides.

    The Kremlin Gremlin is no longer so sure of what to do, but he is determined not to lose what territories his troops occupy. He would like the conflict to pause so that he can replenish what has been lost and plan his next moves, but to do this he needs to cause conflict and division in Ukraine and in the west to get them all to stop fighting and supporting Ukraine's fight, respectively. He needs them all to give up before his runs out of men and material to continue this phase of the war, before he suffers significant losses of territory and even his most precious booty, the Crimean peninsula and its naval base, are lost. He knows that if he is to survive and if his empire to return to its former glory, he must be able to secure a victory in Ukraine, no matter the cost.

    And this, little Mikey, is the hotter war to which I refer. It's hotter than the Cold War because Russians are fighting and dying, and we are supplying those whom they are fighting against. It is also hotter because his rhetoric is causing the Russians to blame us for the war he started and the deaths they are incurring because of it, just as he tells them that the war's purpose is to defend Russia from an aggressor even though this is a blatant and facially absurd lie.

    Additionally, because his ambitions do not end with Ukraine, but include Moldova as well as various NATO member states, this war may get much hotter for us in the future if it is not stopped in Ukraine.

    All I want is peace that does not allow Putin to remain in a position to threaten us or anyone else with further violence. I want a peaceful Russia, not a belligerent Russia with leaders who think it not only possible but appropriate to launch a military invasion of a neighboring country in order to redraw national borders. Most of all, I do not want a Russia that might attack us in the future because its leaders feel that they might actually gain something by doing so.
     
    The Scotsman and Gilos like this.
  25. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2011
    Messages:
    14,150
    Likes Received:
    724
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not everywhere but it does defend Taiwan, Israel, KSA, Ukraine probably others, God bless America.
     
    Durandal likes this.

Share This Page