Russophobia explained.

Uhhhh, no, the previous poster suggested anyone who is "anti russian" is not a people? I'm assuming many who don't agree with that certain message isn't human???

 

1. The demand to Yanukovich to resign. No matter how big is the crowd and how loud do they demand the elected president or MP to leave but only the elections can change the president in a democratic country. The broken law lead to ignoring the opinions of the people who lived in the east and south of Ukraine and led to where we are. If there were elections Yanukovich will most possibly be gone. But peacefully. The agreement signed between him, 'leaders' and Europeans was a good choice even though it would prevent Russia of reunting with Crimea...
2. The demand to sign the international agreement of 'Euroassociation'. Again. No matter how big is the crowd and how loud is the information campaign, but signing the international document is the obligation of an elected President and Parliament. As a result Ukraine has a degraded economy which only 'positive' side is some problems for Russian shipbuilding and rocket-building. At the same time it opens the door to all the Ukrainian (post-soviet) technology for such countries as NK or whoever wants to get it (I am not sure that Iran hasn't got its rockets upgraded for a quite possible nuclear warhead).

Imagine yourself in the place of guy who organizes such a thing. You need to organize a bloody massacre. You need to provoke the crowd to go against the law. What would be your ORDERS to police? If I was in this guys place I would order them to group and even lock the people in the place where they will be under fire and provoke the crowd against the police. Thus the police will have an excuse (they had to retreat for being attacked) to let the two demonstration collide in violent street fight. And yes, I would also order the police not to come to house of trade unions no matter what.

I have no information that this guy is in Russia. But if he really is I haven't heard that Ukrainian police demanded his extradition. This guy for sure was involved. But as long as he was set as a main criminal who organized the disorder - he escaped for his life. Again. I don't say that the guys with red marks on their elbow are any better or worse than the others involved.

I agree with the first statement but disagree with the second. Russia indeed used the situation after Maidan to interfere into US and EU game in the territory. I don't find it clean, but in such a sea of dirt you can't remain clean. It makes a lot of political and military sense for Russia to make this action. And crimeans are not the last option. Taking Crimea was backed with Russian fleet, aviation, army and nothing like that happened in Donbass or Odessa. So I don't have any facts to blame Kremlin of a failed attempt to take Southeast of Ukraine, I could rather blame them of not even trying to do that.

It's just a bit more complicated. I am not saying that ALL the people in Maidan were nationalists or fascists. Most of them were gathered around the stage hardly doing any violence. Nationalists were the battlemen. They were the driving force in Maidan and remained so in current territory of Ukraine. But it took a lot of time for the westerners even to notice these groups in Ukraine. The media told them only about the clean side of Maidan and such politicians as Poroshenko or Yatsenyuk. These guys (including Rabinovich) play around hating each other, but they have to respect the nationalists who cannot get the power openely and will never get it remaining in an open alliance with EU.

It's not like a group of bad people won against the good. Yanukovich wasn't a good person. Poroshenko isn't a good person. You try to imply the logics that if a jew is in the parliament then the party in power cannot be anti-Semitic. But it doesn't need to be so.

I didn't say that it is the same. But violence which started in Maidan with this showbeating continued and increased. There is a link between the bruises of students from Maidan and ripped kids and women of Donbass. A direct link. But it is not the same.
As for 'other countries'... If you have a look in the forum you will find my reaction to civil disorders in the US. I supported the actions of national guards. I only wished they could be less violent but admitted that they cannot behave the way Moscow police does, because the people in the streets of US can bear guns legally and in Russia they can't.

I don't see any facts to back these views. In Crimea we saw how Russia is able to act and which military is used for that, which practices and methods are used. Nothing like that happened in Donbass. I can admit that the weapons and instructors on the side of Donbass are mostly Russians. But the same on the side of Kiev is western. This is ugly on both sides, but the actual guys who shoot at each other were raised by Maidan and the events that followed. These guys are mostly citizens of pre-Maidan Ukraine. The will fighters are at every side. But the regular NATO forces and regular Russian forces so far are not in the battle like in Syria. (which no one conceals). All the rhetorics around the Ukraine is based on initial plan which I think was to provoke Putin to attack Ukraine and deflect his attention from Syria. The plan didn't work, but media doesn't find any better option as sticking with the plan made for the events which never happened.

 

Anti-Russian pig pretends not to understand what I mean.

 

Yes. These are the people, who have just made a war crime. Please, understand that if you lose your mind and revenge and another guys would revenge to Russians... this is what happened next to us in Ukraine. If the people in Maidan could keep their heads cool - the most of the people, who died already in the conflict, would still live. From both sides.

 

The first posted. It is a well-known photo used to show the level of culture of people who went to war.

 

Ukrainians 25 years the urge to kill or expel the Russian from Ukraine. The Ukrainians made the coup. The Ukrainians started the war. Ukrainians say that the people of Donbass are Pro-Russian cattle. This is fascism. If the Ukrainians do it to any other nation that Western politicians would be scream that this is unacceptable. But against the Russian all is possible.

 

Anti-Russian pig knows it... But he doesn't care about the truth.

 

It was not the Ukrainians. who did it. The main problem of the color revolution is that the innocent ordinary people stay behind the revolting squads. AND the propaganda never works only to one of the sides of conflict (if a conflict is needed to those who order the color revolution). The one side gets propaganda against the other.

Simple figures.
40 000 000 people used to be population of Ukraine.
Up to 100 000 of people were driven to Maidan in Kiev. Mostly volunteerily due to media propaganda. Partly organized groups of provocators and battle squads of nationalists.
Around the same number was taking part in Maidan events around the country.

It is quite a big number. If you think about the quantity of policemen in every city and understand that even for a football game the police comes from other regions to help their colleagues to keep 10-20 thousand people under control you will understand that this number can start civil disorders.

Now we have around 80 000 Ukrainian soldiers and newly formed military squads (partly it is the same organized groups from Maidan) gathered near Donetsk and Lugansk with around 50 000 of rebels against them. All the others are either under propaganda or not, but they haven't commited anything even of a notice. Out of 40 000 000 nation we have 400 000 - 1% of people who participated in all of this nightmare. And even the majority of this 1% is hardly guilty of anything. Because most of them are either on orders or under the spell of propaganda. But if you look at your judgement - you judge about the whole nation, including possible relatives of yours. Do you find it logical now?

 

Both are fake and it's obvious, if you have a little bit critical thinking and know about opportunities of programs like photoshop. Problem is that people, who belive in "nacionalist cue" in Ukraina and other farrytales of russian propaganda did not have a critical thinkig at all.

 

It was not the Ukrainians. who did it. The main problem of the color revolution is that the innocent ordinary people stay behind the revolting squads. AND the propaganda never works only to one of the sides of conflict (if a conflict is needed to those who order the color revolution). The one side gets propaganda against the other.

Simple figures.
40 000 000 people used to be population of Ukraine.
Up to 100 000 of people were driven to Maidan in Kiev. Mostly volunteerily due to media propaganda. Partly organized groups of provocators and battle squads of nationalists.
Around the same number was taking part in Maidan events around the country.

It is quite a big number. If you think about the quantity of policemen in every city and understand that even for a football game the police comes from other regions to help their colleagues to keep 10-20 thousand people under control you will understand that this number can start civil disorders.

Now we have around 80 000 Ukrainian soldiers and newly formed military squads (partly it is the same organized groups from Maidan) gathered near Donetsk and Lugansk with around 50 000 of rebels against them. All the others are either under propaganda or not, but they haven't commited anything even of a notice. Out of 40 000 000 nation we have 400 000 - 1% of people who participated in all of this nightmare. And even the majority of this 1% is hardly guilty of anything. Because most of them are either on orders or under the spell of propaganda. But if you look at your judgement - you judge about the whole nation, including possible relatives of yours. Do you find it logical now?

 

Are you saying that the UK is an example of this?

 

Odessa. May 2, 2014. Ordinary Ukrainians poured gasoline into bottles!



Then the Ukrainians attacked the Pro-Russian rally. People hide in the building. After that Ukrainians throw bottles with gasoline into the building.

 

On a second thought the second picture could be true and the first one could be a war propaganda. The barrel on the first photo and the eyes of the soldier are not looking naturally. But the picture doesn't prove anything. War propaganda is widespread in any time.

 

o yeh, and ukrainians crusified russian children in Slovjansk,and there was promise to ukrainian solders, that they will get a peace of land and two russian slaves, if they will go to war in Donbas... And again, this is not a joke, this kind of trash is comming from Russian state television stright into heads of comrades like this one. And after that their are screeming about "non human antirussian pigs" and "ukrainian fashists" or, wats worse, go to Ukraina to kill these "fashists" in "ukraine civil war". Situation is wery bad in Russia, i think people who are far from this, do not even realize how bad it is.

 

Of course, not. These are rumours. They are spread like all rumours are spread. Exaggerated. Spreading an occasional crime into a systemic etc. Russians were really having bad experience with the guys using the same symbols with Ukrainian nationalists. So it is quite understandable. Occasionally these rumours come to television, but that is not a system. Besides, things in Ukraine are so bad that no one really gets suroprised with any news. Of course, our television is jeopardizing this approach but every couple of weeks you have a political murder or murder of someone from media or another crime or another blood or failure... People got used to it just the way they used to such news about Russia in the west.

There were lots of people willing to go to Donbas after Odessa. The provocation worked. But! The only attacking side of this conflict has always been the Ukrainian side... There is not a single offensive operation by whoever is there in Donbass and opposes you. This is a strong fact. And actually it removes all the value of your other suppositions.
Besides, things in Russia are not that bad... They could have been better of course. But I bet you know which country is the poorest country of Europe.

 

Maybe, if Yanukovych would not use power against unarmed, peaceful students demonstration, maybe if his rule would not be corrupt and criminal. Otherwise people have a rights to start unrest and it could not be an excuse for Russian agression againt Ukraine.

I can't understand, why demand of Ukraine people to start Euro Integration is unlawful? Can You explayne, against wich law of Ukraine is that kind of demands?

So police chief Dmitry Fuchedzhi had orders from some dark forces in Kiev to allow the gunfire and after all this mess he escaped to.... Russia. Interesting version

He gave interview to russian and talked about ... body ukrainian fascists.

So can you tell the names of nationalists who came to power in Ukraine after so called "nationalist coup"? Or they are so conspired, so no one know them?

No there is the Link between armed groups of russian officers like Girkin and Boraday in Donbass and theese killed people, there is the link between hate speech in russian television aginst Ukraine state and ukrainian nation and theese killed people. This blod is on the hands of russian goverment and those 83% of russinas, who approved this madnes. Here you can found a causes of russofobia.

An officer of GRU(Main intelligence service of Russia) Girkin is the local Donbas citizen? Or Russia politolog Baraday, who claimed some months ago, that in his organisation of weterans of Donbas in Russia is 11 000(!!!) mebers? Great civil war...

 

Russian aggression for territory and resources is going on right now in Ukraine and occurred a decade ago in Georgia, and both of those wars were instigated by the Kremlin, not Western states.

I agree with you that no country, particularly a powerful country or one that used to qualify as an empire, has never been harmless, and that was precisely my point. For clarification's sake, my figure of speech was more in response to the cherry-picking of a xenophobic anti-American idiot who posted a list of every skirmish that has taken place in the U.S. and then tried to portray them as invasions of other countries. I could do the same with Russia, which has a much longer history than the U.S., but I'm honest enough to admit that it wouldn't honestly and accurately represent Russian-Soviet wars and/or aggression against other countries.

Not really. I'm aware of the history and I'm even sympathetic to Russia's legitimate claims to the Crimean Peninsula, even though it pledged to respect Ukraine's political and territorial sovereignty in the Budapest Memorandum of 1994. Both conflicts were a classic case of revanchist aggression aimed primarily at securing a base for the Black Sea Fleet.

No, it's not.

Certainly, Russia is blessed with vast natural resources but that doesn't mean the West is even remotely interested in seizing them. If anyone regards the vast, empty expanses of Russia as a desirable stash of territory and resources worth seizing, it's going to be China.

LOL - I'll agree on your last point. The rest is pure bullshit. The Russians-Soviets enslaved half of Europe after WWII and after the failing to expel the USSR and its oppression from their lands in the 50s and 60s the Europeans finally succeeded in doing so during the 80s and 90s. To make matters worse the Russians have continued to disrespect and violate the political and territorial sovereignty of its neighbors, so it is solely responsible for the distrust it has brought on itself. Russia is not a victim - it is the perp.

 

Well...this last statement is true....considering the Russians are probably still pissed that the former WP slipped through their grimy paws, especially former East Germany....I'm sure it drives them bonkers to see them united....in Nato?!?.

 

The Ukrainian students in Western Ukraine are jumping and saying: "Whoever does not jump is a Moskal." It's a derogatory term towards the Russians who live in the other half of their country:




Response: Russian students flashmob:




Torchlight parade of Western Ukrainians to honor Nazi hero Bandera:




Response: 30 day religious procession from Eastern Ukraine for peace:

 

No Moskal influene in America. Dah!

 

I have a good memory, and can recall everything exactly as it happened:

Yanukovich was originally told that if he started integration into the EU, the loss to Ukraine's economy would be something around 35 billion. When he was ready to start the process it turned out to be something like 150 billion because Russia had to stop the favorable trade deals it had with Ukraine. If Russia didn't, then EU goods would be entering Russia through Ukraine and the EU wouldn't be paying the right amount.

Putin said he was willing to discuss it with the EU, but the EU refused. Yanukovich then asked the EU if they could loan him the extra money, and they said no, and he would have to get it from the IMF. The IMF told him that they would give him the money, but he had to double the price of gas, and lower the social services about 70%. Yanukovich didn't want to do that to the Ukrainian people, so he decided to hold off entering the EU for a while.

First of all there is no Russia aggression against Ukraine. Putin knew that the US was trying to provoke Russia into going to war, and he wasn't going to fall for it. Besides, he didn't want the Donbas, because the cost of integration would have been too high. It was the people of Donbas who didn't want to take orders from an illegal government who they didn't vote for, especially after the burning and hackings of the Russian protesters in Odessa. Now though Putin said if they attack, he won't allow genocide in the Donbas. A Ukrainian politician said Ukraine wouldn't survive one week against Russia... but the US encourages people to do stupid things so it can sell arms.

As for Yanukovich, his biggest fault was that he didn't give the police the order to fight back until it was too late. The 'Nazis' were setting the police on fire and beating them and they couldn't respond. As for the snipers, they were hired by the ones behind the protests, and the bullets that killed the protesters and police came from the same gun. The snipers who were from Georgia and Lithuania, are now coming forward since they weren't given the money they had been promised.

Here are the 'peaceful' protesters at Maidan storming the administration building, and beating the police, and another video where the police were being set on fire with Molotov cocktails. There were camps in Poland where the 'provocateurs' were being trained.





Here's a telephone call from the Estonian Foreign Minister telling Ashton that the bullets that killed the protester and the police came from the same gun:

 

Yes, and there are plenty of other examples, meaning governments of all countries probably do the same; I only know about this one (I won't say 'I only know about mine' because I'm so ashamed of it) do exactly the same. It's a way of empire building and ipso facto job security for the useless parasites at the top.

 

So you're saying that the UK is demonising Russia? Is so, how?

 

All the latest from the madhouse known as the United Kingdom:

"Putin ready to KILL 'thousands and thousands of Brits" But no proof, as per effing usual!

Bottom line - I don't know whether to laugh or to be afraid Vladimir Putin probably doesn't, either? (deja vu alert) Whenever he reads this kind of crap he probably keeps thinking he's having some kind of weird dream. NB. Check out the pic of him in the link, looking all threatening . . .

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/la...attack-submarine-missile-Gavin-Williamson-MoD

I was watcing The Vietnam War on iplayer again last night, and a Churchillian speech was quoted; it included the following phrase, which is very appropriate to all this crap. It was 'Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.' Ain't that the truth!

 

I assume that by now you've read my post and 'Putin is planning on killing all of us Brits'? Does that answer your question