Shotguns penetrate walls far more than a .223 from an AR platform, and a bolt action is just poor for home defense, if you miss, you may not have time to chamber another round as things happen so fast in this situation that every split second counts. I can operate a bolt with the best of tbem but I would never reccomend it for home defense.
then the 17 year old should have knocked and/or announce his presence in the house. The perp is responsible for his predicament. By him making his choices leaves me with little choice. Whoever they are, they made the choice to enter a home unbiden. Feeling sorry for the criminal? And why in the sam hill would I visit a perp in the hospital after I tried to put his azz in the ground?
In my opinion, hand guns and short barreled weapons may be more useful and more necessary and proper for defense of self and property.
The better the gun, the better for home defense. have you shot a wide variety, or is this only speculation? As I showed in the links above, when you make that concious decision to pull that trigger, you need to take into consideration. Is this a valid reason to pull the trigger? Is there no one else near the line of fire who is innocent? What is behind him, and what is beyond that door or wall that this shot will go through? The test result above shows how the shotgun is by far the worst, and a 9mm still can go through 2 walls before finally breaking apart and disintegrating. The .223 breaks apart after the very first wall causing minimal threat to anything on the other side. Not only that, but the fear factor of just seeing one could resolve the problem without anyone getting shot.
Your talking about a term that could mean alot af different weapons, for instance a sig sauer 522 swat fires a 22lr would be ok, though the 22 does not cause enough damage, an individual who is on some sort of upper drug could withstand a couple poorly aimed shots. A short barrel gun can come in many different calibers and many different platforms including that of an AK or an AR, like the kitty kat AR 15 which i could see as being better due to the compactness, it still uses .223 but being shorter means more recoil fealt, but its not really that much. So I guess the answer to your question depends on what short barreled gun you are talking about.
What do typical "engagements" consist of, in civilian point defense of self and property? I will assume you won't claim that a machine gun may be necessary in most civilian settings.
Actually it shows that buckshot is the worst in the scenario tested, not necessarily a shotgun. Furthermore, the testing on your second link did not use an AR, but rather a Mini14. The AR handles multiple types of ammo. Additionally, another one of your links tested a shotgun with a slug, a most unlikely home defense weapon.
Would a long barreled gun or a short barreled gun be more useful within a home for defense of self and property?
There is only one true practical measure for suitability of of a weapon and that is control. If one can not control it, it is useless. A well placed 22 round is far more effective and safer than any "spray and pray" approach.
Why would a long barreled rifle be better than a short barreled rifle for point defense of self and property?
The test with the slug was just for the purpose of showing more diversity and a complete test with multiple variables. I did however overlook another variable in birdshot, upon further review, the birdshot passed through the first dry wall board but not the second, which means it would not pass through a complete wall, however I question the ability to stop and put down someone who is trying to come after you, especially if they are on a speed enhanced drug, such as meth. Unless I overlooked something, a shotgun only shoots buckshot, birdshot and slugs.
Because of comparability in terms of barrel length, the mini 14 actually falls in average, which gives the bullet its velocity. I do not like the mini 14 but it is actually a better rifle for this test. The AR is made in all calibers, the .223 (5.56) is the most common and sought after especially for sportsman shooters. The myth of the shotgun as far as not having to aim is completely false as it does not really begin to spread until after the range of a larger room. In the hands of someone who is not proficient(which I am in no way saying you are not) this is actually a draw back for if they do not believe they have to aim they will more than likely miss. A gun in an AR platform loaded with .223 is just as big to navigate as a shotgun but less heavy and far less recoil. To put ontop of that this test shows there is far less colateral damage in terms of going through a body and then a wall. I am not downing what you believe to be a better method, because I certainly would not want to be shot by a buckshot or slug from a shotgun, i'm just trying to bring some science to the self defense subject. Did I at least show you something you didn't know about the subject?
Not all mini 14's can handle the 5.56 round. Not that it matters though. The only safe round to use out of an AR round for home defense is a frangie round. Anything else will overpenetrate.
I have had a neighbor break into my house I was lucky enough to not be there but from what the cops told me he went armed with a 8 inch kitchen knife. I would think if he came armed he took his life in his own hands if I came out with a shotgun and if he lunged its all on him to either run or advance and take his chances. I have no will to shoot my fellow human just like I have no will to go out and shoot a pit bull. But, Just like if one advances on me in a harmful manner I will give it a chance to back down before I take action against it.
Bolt action rifles are obosolete as defensive/offensive rifles. They are for high powered rounds and sniper applications. For fairness and sportiness hunting big, stupid animals, they are wonderful. For trying to work a bolt and fire mulitple rounds while human attackers are coming at you---a horrendously poor choice. Shotguns and rifles are heavy, require strength and two hands. Some older and disabled folks can't shoot anything but a handgun.
Just because he doesn't think a rifle is the best tool does not mean he supports a ban. Strawman. Fallacy.
on the home defense part I (Me) Personally would use a shotgun semi auto with slugs. But thats also cause If I have to use a shotgun would think if it got to the point thats what I had to use thats what I would use. In my .45 I have hollow points and Lead bullets and have it loaded with lead right now for the simple fact that if I have to use it all the houses around me are brick and if it hits brick the lead will collapse nicely. For my girlfriend who is smaller, She would prefer a lever action 30-30 because its easier and more comfortable for her to hold and carry and an AR is perfect for her because of how light they can be. My .45 is heavy for her to hold. So different people prefer different things. When I get older, slower and weaker I will probably go to a nice little rifle compared to my 1911.
I am an AR-15 whore. And a S&W M&P pistol slut. I have participated in a tactical pistol/rifle course (dumped a lot of ammo), and have .22LR versions of my M&P pistols and AR-15's (both carbine and rifle lengths) so that I may practice for 1/10th the cost. I get a fair amount of practice in, and I very much prefer the AR-15 over any of my other long guns. Including the shotgun.
Awww and you were doing so good up until this point. There is good reason to use a shotgun over handguns, especially hand guns using hot loads, the blast of a shotgun will lose power when it hits an object ( a perp or wall) and slow or stop, a handgun (at least the larger calibers, will go throu a prep though the wall and into the home next door if you live close like so many do and possibly kill an innocent person. I agree about the racking of a shotgun, besides that would be ejecting a loaded round in my home, yes I keep one in the chamber but I have no kids in my home. As for being smaller, get a pistol grip on the shotgun and you can move with as much ease as a handgun. I would also suggest to most people to learn to shoot their handguns one handed, a double grip is not realistic when wandering around with a gun and flashlight. Oh and one last thought, the best burgler alarm and home deterent to a burglar is a dog, most criminals are smart enough to realize a dog will alert the owners and those living near by and if you have the right dog will provide protection, almost everyone out in the country where I live have both dogs and guns, guess what our crime rate is far far lower than in town.
I love your first sentence. lol I have my 1911 and still have yet to shoot it. Bought it Jan 1st. lol But have an AR15 stripped lower I dont know if I will keep or sell thinking mostly about my girlfriend if I sell it I will buy a Taurus 85 ultra light .38 for her or worst case scenario a nice little ruger 9mm. still on the fence about it.
I have seen you post this question a few times, and I'm not quite sure what you are refering to. Are you saying long barrel as in a rifle or shotgun and shortbarrel as in pistol? If so I have stated my position above, but I will sumarize it here, again. The .223 (5.56) which is chambered in a lot of semi automatic rifles has been tested and shown to break apart in the wall better than other pistol calibers and shotgun shells. Plus the fear factor of a defender weilding a rifle of the AR-15 platform would deter some people and end a situation without someone getting injured. I guess you would need to read the entire thread, but this question you are asking is repetitive and it is what this thread is about. Are you asking this question because you think you already know the answer and are waiting to pounce on somebody when they say something you don't agree, or are you asking because you really don't know? Either way your question has already been answered.
