Should Any Other Ethnic Group Feel Shame Except Whites?

Recently a very liberal post on a social media site with the obligatory Confederate and Nazi flags saying that ALL Whites should feel shame for their past history. Every Liberal here does not need a lesson on Nazism, slavery, Jim Crow laws and Colonialism. If this is true that Whites have been so evil, then their actions over the last 7,000 years of civilization should be a net liability to themselves and everyone that they encountered over time.

If White Colonialism was overall a bad thing, then natives in Africa, the Americas, Australia, Polynesia and every other place greatly impacted by Whites should have been better off then before contact than they are now. In other words, if the Stone Age Native American tribes had been left alone for the last 600 years, would their standard of living or index of human development be better than it is now in 2016? Could they have advanced at the same rate on their own?

I'd also like to know if any other ethnic group, beside Whites should feel any shame for anything their racial ancestors did wrongly in the past.

 

Asians have the Mongols, Mao Tse Tung, Tojo etc which killed 100's of millions.

Muslims had killed up to 100's millions in India alone, and had massive slave trades from Europe to Africa where they enslaved 10's of millions.

Blacks took part in the Atlantic Slave Trade by selling their slaves to Whites, and Blacks have the quickest genocide in history in Rwanda.

 

Thats not how it works. White guilt is a political instrument utilized by the left for political purposes.

 

The Japanese. China is constantly excoriating the Japanese and thinks Japan should apologize for WWII.

 

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I don't get into this this racial shame crap, anymore than I get into reparations, taking blame for the sins of the past or taking responsibility for past racial, cultural or national transgressions. That is for the weak.

 

No ethnic groups should feel shame. We are only responsible for our own moral choices. Those that divide folks into ethnic groups should feel shame. We live in a post-racial society, its time for those clowns that see folks in "ethnic groups" to join us.

 

You,re dealing in the world of what ifs. What if Native American tribes had developed technology. What if they discovered uranium before thecEuropeans. What if they developed laser weapons or other types of weapons such as biological weapon and managed to infect uscofvEuropean roots! What if, what if, what if.

You may as well read alternative history!

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Very good point about not pinning shame on ethnic groups but I am not in agreement with the post racial comments. We gave made strides but not there, not yet.

 

No race or people of today are in any way responsible for the actions, whether succeeding or failing, of people from the past.

We are responsible for the actions of our lifetime, not somebody else's and nobody today deserves anything from another because of something that happened 200 years ago, or even 60.

If white people are responsible for racist whites, then all blacks are responsible for gang bangers and thugs in their areas who are the result of 90% of black murders.

If it works one way, then it needs to work all the way.

 

So the Germans of piost. war Germany should not have paid reparations for the Nazi era?

 

I think it is well past that time yes. Germans of today should not have to pay for the actions of those in the past. Germany should be free from paying reparations to family members who did not experience the atrocities.

 

I'm white. I don't feel shame.

Your argument is a strawman. We ought to teach history—accurate history.

So if a student says black communities are in the worst shape ever right now. If they say things were better for blacks in 1950, then they get an F.

Why should I be ashamed of other people’s willful ignorance?

 

I am dealing with both what if's and what is's.

I am fairly certain that the Aztecs would not have developed lasers, and the Incas would not have developed escalators, and the Intuits would not have developed snowmobiles if not for Westerners.

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Reparations for something so long ago and for so much are just stuuupppid.

 

As I posted before, there was already international trade across the Atlantic centuries before Columbus. Egyptian mummies have been found with traces of nicotine and cocaine in their systems, both plants only grow in the Americas. So here's a what if for you: Columbus sails East to fight the Turks, the European countries are devastated by the Crusades and then the Black Plaque...The Aztecs sail west and conquer Europe, what does this mean for Europe, human sacrifice, no Christianity....

http://www.catalyzingchange.org/cocaine-mummies-of-ancient-egypt/

Thor Hyerdahl sailed a traditional S American raft made out of balsa wood and reeds across the Pacific ocean, proving that the stone age Native Americans actually could cross the oceans, long before the Europeans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thor_Heyerdahl

And lets not forget that the Native Americans taught the early settlers how to survive, guerilla warfare which helped them defeat the British, and the pyramids in South America and cliff dwellings in Southwest America are as sophisticated if not as technologically more advanced than the Europeans were at the same time.
The one thing that gave Europeans the advantage over most other races was steel, which was discovered in the Middle East, and gunpowder which was discovered by China.

 

I'm a white person and I don't feel shame for things that I did not or could not control, which pretty much means anything that happened before I was the age of 5 is automatically disqualified, and anything afterwards only counts when I personally was involved with it. No white person should feel any differently. No person of any color, religion, ethnicity, or gender should feel any differently.

But the flipside of that is, you definitely are responsible for the things you could control. A white person is not responsible for any time a different white person acts in a prejudiced manner, but they are responsible for any time themselves have or have actively condoned those actions by another. The same holds true for a black person. Black person A is not responsible for Black Person B acting racist or committing a crime because they are two separate autonomous individuals.

Sometimes a person is, sometimes knowingly and sometimes unknowingly, part of a system that is based on prejudice and cruelty even when they themselves don't share those feelings. One example I've thought of is the way certain characters in old Disney cartoons were portrayed. Obviously racist and based on insulting stereotypes, but as a kid I laughed at them because I was not aware of any of that. As an enlightened adult, I still don't feel guilty for laughing as a child before I knew any better but I do not condone those stereotypes if or when they are still being included in modern media.

The point is, it's stupid to assume other people have to be a certain way while at the same time arguing for your own individuality. Though your perceptions may make it seem that way due largely to understandable ignorance(none of us can really know what it's like to be another person, even when you might be in similar situations), it's important not to let yourself get caught up in collective groupthink that assumes different groups of people, usually minorities, are part of a unified collective instead of a collection of different individuals like folks tend to think of themselves as.

 

You are of course joking, unless you can show me a cliff dwelling with as much grandeur as Notre Dame



What gave Europeans the advantage was the mastery of mathematics and science. And these masteries were the consequence of the interaction between intelligence and enterprise. Superior cultures win out. That is the definition of superiority. Coming out on top.

 

Yes us whiteys should feel shame. We taught the Negro to wear clothing, their first written language ever, how to eat with a knife and fork. Even tried to make them civilized. After 200 years that is still an ongoing process. We were making progress. But now, recently, we have digressed.

 

Those sound compelling, but had all the Pre-Colombian tribes in the Americas been so advanced, and had have shared knowledge with the Ancient (White) Egyptians, then they could have at least told them about the wheel.

Growing corn and hunting and gathering and stone crafting is not going to quickly produce advanced technology. Look at all the backward tribes in the Amazon, New Guinea and Africa---they've yet to invent anything remotely modern after all this time.

 

As a black man, I don't feel any shame for past actions committed by members of my race.. Nor do I feel the need to publically reject opinions that I disagree with from people of my own race. My only moral obligation is to myself and my family.

I don't hold my white friends, or white people in general to that kind of unrealistic standard. As long as you know that you're morally good, you have no need to apologize for the actions of past people who you had no way of influencing.

I actually think societies current focus on identity politics has created an environment that's degrading to individuality. People are seen only through the lens of their assumed "privilege" based on their race/sexuality/gender. As a result their forced to carry the burden of any issues people have with the group they belong to, without any regard for their individual personhood.

 

I am talking about those cliff dwellings built in the same time frame, I.E. 1000 B.C. to 400 B.C., this was the age of the Minoans in European history. Pre Greece and pre Roman empire, show me pictures of architecture from this time frame.
Notre dame was completed in 1345.

Also mathematics originated in the middle east, not Europe.

So yes when I talk about cliff dwellings that are 20 stories tall, built before Christ and were known to have natural style climate control similar to what is built into large termite mounds in Africa...Well as I said, at the time, the Americas were as advanced as Europe.

 

That doesn't mean that they wouldn't have. The most devastating thing Europeans brought with them to the Americas is disease.

Archeologists have already proven that the Native Americans were all over the Caribbean, and have surmised that they were less than a 100 years from ocean going vessels.

 

You could come off a "little" more racist...but you'd have to try real hard.

 

Fair enough. But I would say the Egyptians did the first math. Not that it matters very much.

 

They should apologize.

 

But they never will.

I doubt it would make much practical difference.

 

Be careful when trying to simplify history to winners and losers; it can lead to a lot of questionable conclusions. The belief that Europe had an advantage over the rest of the world based on intelligence and enterprise is a hard one to support. There is no evidence that average intelligence in the rest of the world was lower than in Europe before, during, or after the Colonial Period of the 15th through the 19th centuries. There is certainly evidence worldwide of enterprise and intelligence working together.

The pyramids in both Mexico and Egypt, made of stone cut without the advantage of steel, demonstrate remarkable enterprise and ingenuity. Machu Pichu, made of stone cut without steel AND moved up a mountain without benefit of the wheel, is an engineering feat notable for its indication of both intelligence and enterprise.

Consider that "Arabic" numerals, the zero, and algebra were originally developed in India. The Rashidun and Umayyad caliphates conquered India, and adopted these mathematical developments, and transported them to Spain with the conquest of Al-Andalus in the 8th & 9th centuries. The Cathedral of Notre Dame was begun in the 12th century, and constructed using mathematics developed by Indians and transported to Europe by Muslim Arabs. Even the geometry used for the construction, (developed in Greece) was transported by the Umayyads from Constantinople to a Western Europe struggling to outgrow the dark ages. Medieval Europe only gets so much credit for the math and engineering that made Notre Dame possible.

In addition to the mathematics developed in India, East Asian cultures developed technologies later developed in Europe, such as the seismograph and clock in China, and moveable type in Korea. These cultures were conquered and colonized by Europeans, despite their technological advances. Europeans cannot even take credit for gunpowder, (product of Chinese intelligence and enterprise) which was the primary technological advantage Europeans had over most cultures during the colonial period.

Geography, botany, and microbiology are critical factors in the rise of Eurasian civilizations, and in the dominance of European culture in the last four or five centuries. I recommend Jared Diamond's book Gun's, Germs, and Steel for an explanation of why advanced technological civilizations developed independently and spread on the Eurasian continent, but not so much elsewhere. Diamond's discussion is based on the observation that widespread civilization technologically capable of world conquest did not develop in Australasia, Africa, or the Americas because the geographic areas are either too small or are on a north-south axis, and because of inadequate variety of available domesticable animals and food plants. He also touches on the role disease played in conquest. Plagues and Peoples by William H. McNeill goes into detail about the role disease played in cultural development and conquest.

I do not mean to imply that Europeans did not achieve notable, impressive, and valuable technological and cultural advances. I am merely pointing out that these advances did not occur in a vacuum, and that they do not demonstrate any innate superiority over the cultures the Europeans conquered.