Should Palestinians Really Stay In Their Cage And Die?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Tipper101, Apr 4, 2024.

  1. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Banned

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    The war math is very simple: in a reality in which civilian to combatant kill ratio is staggeringly lop-sided even in clearly non-genocidal battles, to the tune of 5:1 and even 10:1 ratios(battle of Fallujah US VS. Insurgents resulted in 3:1 ratio), the Gaza War has resulted in a comparatively amazing ratio of 1.5-1 civilian to combatant ratio over a huge amount of time.

    The result speaks for itself, which is why whenever I bring it up, the anti-Israel posters promptly ignore it and wander off to put up dozens more posts about “genocide” this and “slaughter” that every single day.



    So okay, fine. Let’s just roll with the genocide claim for the fun of it.

    Question: Why do you believers that Israel is committing genocide want Palestinians to stay where they are and be slaughtered?

    I have never heard a satisfactory answer to this.

    You all look at Egypt shutting the door on the Palestinian cage of slaughter and, as far as I can tell, say “good job Egypt, if any Palestinians try to climb your walls please be sure to shoot every last one of them. Nobody leaves. Im not going to actually say this of course, I’m just going to never mention Egypts role in refusing to “let” Palestinians in, as if they could stop 2 million desperate people without resorting to actual real slaughter. Which Egypt is, of course, not going to commit”


    So? Why do you pro-Palestinians want the Palestinians to keep being slaughtered? Simple question.


    I have never heard one single Pro-Palestinian suggest an evacuation or even mention Egypt. Strange, because if I wanted them to live and believed that they will all die if they stay there, I would want them to get the hell out, free up Israel to wipe out Hamas, and the war would be over much sooner and allow for the aftermath, whatever it is, to actually be considered.

    Now that is what I think a true pro-Palestinian Anti-Hamas person should be like.

    But not one of you suggests this. I guess the thought of Israel not letting them return terrified you more then then being dead?? To which I say: absurd.


    So, here’s your chance. Explain why months more of Palestinian genocide and starvation and bombs is better for them than an evacuation to safety.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2024
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  2. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Banned

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    Im honestly not sure which is worse, the Palestinian willingness to sit there waiting to be slaughtered rather than at least bang on an Egyptian wall or their “supporters” telling them to sit there and don’t do no banging on walls, just sit there and wait to die
     
  3. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Palestinians are kinda stuck in the wierd place as being the only people forcefully removed from their ancestral land by the modern liberal west that supposedly abhores such practice. WW2 set the precedent that what was done to them wasn't an accaptable practice, and then it got done to them immediately anyway. If they had been forced out just 10 years earlier, they likely would have given up, accepted this is how things work, and melted away into other nations and cultures long ago, like every other conquered people did pre-1938. But it happened to them like 2 years after we fought the most epic global war imagineable to stop Hitler from doing in Europe what we funded 'Israel' to do in Palestine.

    And now most everyone who was part of that is dead from old age. They have a land to take back, but the people on that land were born there and have as much claim to it as anyone.

    There isnt a good solution. A winner take all fight to death would be the least unfair way to solve it, but the rest of the world is intent on making even the fight unfair.

    Maybe when parts of Antarctica start thawing in 200 years, Palestinians get first dibs at colonizing the new New World... but this isnt going to last that long.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2024
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  4. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    No they shouldn't. They should cooperate with the Israli army to identify and eliminate Hamas members. Apparently they are protecting them. Not a good idea.
     
  5. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    Nobody really wants them... That's the problem.
     
  6. CKW

    CKW Well-Known Member

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    Its conveniently not reported or hyped as anti Israel headlines are--the Jordan, Kuwait and other countries in the area stripped their own citizens of citizenship because they were palestinian origin. People and families lost jobs, a way of making a living and their homes and were turned into refugees. https://www.hrw.org/news/2010/02/01/jordan-stop-withdrawing-nationality-palestinian-origin-citizens

    Anti Jew, Anti Israel folks never cared then and don't care now. All they care is how they can hate on Israel.
     
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  7. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    A lot of then used to live in Jordan but they tried to over throw the king who apparently didn't hate Jews enough to suit them so he kicked them out. In a bloody war. Then After Sadat brokered a more or less permanent peace deal with Israel the Palestinian operating with the Muslim Brotherhood assassinated Sadat and then got their murderous asses kicked out of Egypt. Then a fair number of them were working in Kuwait and then they sided with Saddam when he invaded Kuwait and got kicked out of there. The only country that still willingly entertains palestinians is lebanon which is broken. Israel controls something like 15 to 20% of the Palestinian Border the other 80-85% is controlled by Jordan and egypt But it is all Israel's fault that they can't go anywhere? The math on it's face makes the claim absurd.
     
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  8. Eclectic

    Eclectic Newly Registered

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    Why should the Palestinians leave?

    Instead, lets try a single state solution. The UN should declare that the territory of Israel, Gaza, West Bank, Golan Heights, etc., that is militarily controlled by Israel is a new unitary state. Lets call it Canaan.

    All the inhabitants regardless of previous passports are now citizens of secular Canaan, with equal rights and responsibilities.
     
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  9. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Banned

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    Your question isn’t relevant because it’s already answered. Did you fail to read anything?
     
  10. Darthcervantes

    Darthcervantes Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They are in the position they are in because of INTOLERANCE and it doesn't appear that will ever change. It looks like the only logical course for Israel is all out war until every threat is eliminated (oh sorry I forgot, they are the only country not allowed to defend themselves, my bad!)
     
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  11. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure the OP isn't leaning heavily on straw men? I am not aware of the opportunity for Palestinians to leave for a new home, or having the means to get there. In fact, a huge number of them did already leave their homes and moved to Rafah, where they were told it would be safe for them, before Netanyahu declared that he intends to destroy there too. As for Egypt, that's not in the control of the Palestinians.
     
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  12. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    The Palestinians, for their part in this, could stop supporting terrorists who kill Israelis. Why is it just Israel who is expected to change?
     
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  13. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    The people with guns and precision missiles are obviously afraid of the terrorists. Why do you expect people with nothing to meaningfully stand up against them? Being a hero is one thing, but being an idiot is getting yourself killed with no impact.
     
  14. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    What's your source for 1.5:1... I don't think the ratio is known at all since it's hard to identify who was a terrorist to begin with. It's not like we can say what percentage of them were wearing uniforms. We can't even tell based upon age or gender. A 12 year old could be a terrorist. An 84 year old could be one. Nobody knows. Likely nobody can know.

    Evacuation to Egypt, at least temporarily, would have been helpful. It was my first thought when the conflict started. I understand why Egypt doesn't want to deal with it, but it would have been the moral thing for them to do. My expectations of Egypt aren't high, though. I would have had a lot of respect and admiration for them had they done more.

    I think the concern with evacuation to Egypt, by Egypt and people who support Palestinians, is that it would help Israel complete its ethnic cleansing by never allowing people to come back home. Do people really believe bombing the **** out of Gaza is the way to destroy Hamas? That's just silly. They're more idea than standing army. You don't kill an idea by killing people unless you're ruthless enough to kill all of them - if anything, Israel's approach will make them stronger.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2024
  15. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Banned

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    Recent reports as of today by, say, cnn, report about 33,000 dead total according to Hamas, of which 10-12,000 are Hamas and other combatants according to Israel as of February is latest count I can find with a quick search.

    Accepting both numbers from both groups is reasonable given, as you state, there’s no way to definitively know, and to account for an extra month of fighting since that February estimate from Israel, it’s reasonable to assume at least the high end of their estimate at 12,000 dead Hamas

    12,000 dead combatants and 21,000 dead civilians is a rate of 1.75 dead civilians to dead combatant to be mathematically as accurate as possible.
     
  16. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I don't think any of those numbers are reliable enough to do calculations. Israel's number - I don't know how they could begin to calculate. When you drop hundreds of 2000 lb bombs in areas you told civilians to go to, are you thoroughly digging through the rubble finding every body? And can they tell based upon a body if they were a terrorist? No way could they usually tell. It's bullshit. They obviously don't wait for shooting to start before dropping bombs to begin with.

    Not only can they not tell even if they were honest, but they also clearly lie when it suits them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2024
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Dude they have been kicked out of every country in the middle east damn near because there leadership tend to murdering trouble hunting bastards. They were kicked out of Jordan for trying to kill the king, they were kick out of Egypt for assassinating Sadat, they got kicked out of Kuwait for siding with Saddam. The only country even remotely close to Israel they haven't been kicked out of is Lebanon but that is largely because Lebanon is functionally no longer a country.
     
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  18. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    I would like to learn more about the part in bold. Do you have a link supporting this claim?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2024
  19. Tipper101

    Tipper101 Banned

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    Take it up with Hamas, take it up with Israel, and take it up with every news source and government that runs with those numbers
     
  20. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    They offered a two state solution before. The palestinians turned it down. They don't want a two state solution. They want a one state solution in Israel. The UN has no power to declare what you suggest.
     
  21. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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  22. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Why did you quote me and purport to respond to me when you addressed nothing you quoted? I don't know how to respond when you do that.
     
  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    That is the answer to what you said. The Palestinians Are where they are because of their history and not just with Israel either.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2024
  24. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Look up the links between the Muslin Brotherhood and the PLO.
     
  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I mean what real choice to the Palestinians have? They don't really have anywhere else to go. This sounds harsh but I shoot straight, virtually nobody seems to want them around and nobody is welcoming them into their countries. Given the geographic location of Gaza the "easiest" migration route to "safety" would be towards Egypt which has constructed arguably the most impenetrable border barricade on Earth to keep them from going that way. They can't exactly migrate through Israel to get anywhere for obvious reasons and even if they did none of the other Middle Eastern countries would give them safe quarter. They don't have the resources to evacuate by air and no nation with said resources wants to go rescue them and bring them back to their own countries. And it's a really long boat ride to Greece trying to get passed an Israeli Navy who is hanging out there.

    Plus lets cut the Tik Tok era crap. Hamas doesn't want/let civilians evacuate even if they wanted to because Hamas needs sob stories and negative press against Israel in order to have any chance of surviving this war. The only hope Hamas and the Palestinians have in general is for the world opinion to sour on Israel and hopefully put enough pressure on them to stop beating the snot out of Gaza. You don't get sympathy as a terrorist faction who just attacked your neighbor killing over a thousand innocent people by showing videos of primarily dead fighting aged males. Nobody cares about dead fighting aged males, people care about dead women and children. Let the women and children go and Hamas has no more pictures to show the world how evil Israel is.
     
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