Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by YouLie, Dec 17, 2013.
I'm sure you believe that.
Which illustrates why we cannot accept so called Christian rationales about topics in which their opinions are driven by faith
I might have missed the answer...
But, even if the shroud comes from an approximate time of jesus.... what evidence is there that actually connects it to jesus?
It's just another piece of evidence.. one that we can closely examine. Eventually you have a preponderance of evidence... or you could just start with faith in Our Lord and Savior Jesus, The Father and the Holy Spirit. … in which the evidence is printed on your eternal Soul.
I am not convinced that this is from the correct period, nor that it has any connection with jesus, so i think it has no evidentiary value except for those who are already believers
Thanks for sharing your opinion
The evidence of the time period and even the location, are in the pollen present and the style of weave of the clothe. connection with Jesus? Not only is it purported to be the Shroud of Jesus, but the image was caused in a very peculiar way.. a micro (nano burst?) of intense directional radiation, that has not been replicated, and the technology to replicate it pushes the capabilities of science.. i.e they think they know how to do, they just aren't sure they can.
On another thread some asked "why do we not see miracles anymore?" My answer is, we don't see them or acknowledge them as miracles, and they are forgotten.. much as the Bible has pointed out over and over...
And....your answer is wrong.
coming from someone with such a sinister avatar,, I'll chose to ignore your "opinion".
My but you are easily spooked....I am not that scary. Still....please ignore me if only to preserve your own Dogma dream.
Not spooked, and not easily; your dogma and mindset is.. disappointing.
I'll ignore you, and not because you could never possibly threaten my beliefs, at your worst you could never do more than confirm and strengthen my faith....; but because I see no reason to reply to your antagonistic, sadistic retorts.
I have only the vaguest notion as to what you understand about what you call "dogma dream".
That's a new one. Truth is sadistic and antagonistic?
True, if genuine, the Shroud is essentially photographic evidence for the resurrection.
So skeptics, how did that image get on the Shroud?
In December 2011 scientists at Italy's National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Development ENEA deduced from the STURP results that the color of the Shroud image is the result of an accelerated aging process of the linen, similar to the yellowing of the paper of ancient books. They demonstrated that the photochemical reactions caused by exposing linen to ultraviolet light could reproduce the main characteristics of the Shroud image, such as the shallowness of the coloration and the gradient of the color, which are not reproducible by other means. When subsequently illuminated with a UV lamp, the irradiated linen fabrics behaved like the linen of the Shroud. They also determined that UV radiation changes the crystalline structure of cellulose in a similar manner as aging and long-duration background radiation.
Paolo Di Lazzaro, the lead researcher, indicated in an e-mail interview that "... it appears unlikely a forger may have done this image with technologies available in the Middle Ages or earlier", but their study does not mean the Shroud image was created by the flash of a miraculous resurrection, contrary to how the story was presented in the media, especially on the Web. Professional skeptic Joe Nickell states that the latest findings are nothing new despite being "dressed up in high-tech tests", and that they don't prove much of anything.
Not quite the whole story. From National Geographic:
The Question of Questions
Looming above all other issues is what physicist Paolo Di Lazzaro calls “the question of questions”: how the image was produced, regardless of its age. Every scientific attempt to replicate it in a lab has failed. Its precise hue is highly unusual, and the color’s penetration into the fabric is extremely thin, less than 0.7 micrometers (0.000028 inches), one-thirtieth the diameter of an individual fiber in a single 200-fiber linen thread.
Di Lazzaro and his colleagues at Italy’s National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (ENEA) conducted five years of experiments, using state-of-the-art excimer lasers to train short bursts of ultraviolet light on raw linen, in an effort to simulate the image’s coloration. The ENEA team, which published its findings in 2011, came tantalizingly close to approximating the image’s distinctive hue on a few square centimeters of fabric. But they were unable to match all the physical and chemical characteristics of the shroud image. Nor could they reproduce a whole human figure.
The ultraviolet light necessary to do so “exceeds the maximum power released by all ultraviolet light sources available today,” says Di Lazzaro. It would require “pulses having durations shorter than one forty-billionth of a second, and intensities on the order of several billion watts.”
If the most advanced technologies available in the 21st century could not produce a facsimile of the shroud image, he reasons, how could it have been executed by a medieval forger?
For believers, the radiation thesis suggests that a “divine light” in the tomb might have seared the crucified form of Jesus Christ onto the shroud. “One could look at hypotheses outside the realm of science, a sort of miracle,” says Di Lazzaro. “But a miracle cannot be investigated by the scientific method.”
Just freakin' amazing! So much for "it was painted on there" which was confirmed as a hoax. Sad that no matter the evidence, some just won't accept that evidence.
That goes both ways.
It's just amazing that people still put forward the idea that because a few scientists can't explain the thing, that it must be god's doing. We couldn't explain lots of things in the past, so people said it was god that did them, but then we found out it wasn't. Same here. It's a mystery, it will be solved (if people even bother to throw the money at it) at some point, or, more likely, forgotten about in the same way that the silly superstition will be forgotten. Just get on with saving our planet.
god? Ok.. may be your god.. but my God is THE God
No it's not...mine is. So is Abduls, Mahatmas, Yosimotos...etc.....hmmmm….I'm just gonna say Tongdda is God, he is the real one.
Another fresh look at Shroud data.
In this Discovery Channel doc the scientist that managed the C14 dating admits he screwed up. Oops!:
So, what is the conclusion?
Watch the video.
The shroud of Turin. Lets assume for a moment that it's real. At this point in time it's a piece of cloth, Christ is not in it.
Much like the "holy grail" and yes even the Arc of the Covenant. They are now just objects, they have no inherent mystical properties. The power behind these items was always God. The cup never had any power anyway.
People need to not idolize these or any other items. They are nothing. God is everything.
That is faith, not science.
LOL, there are 2 billion Christians today, and growing.
You'd be much better off saving your soul. That you can do.
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