"Shunning"....has anyone experienced this? >>MOD WARNING<<

How in the world are JWs Gnostics?

 

I agree. Shunning for any reason is despicable when all you have to do is sit down and have a conversation w/that person, try to iron out the problem.....well, if you really CARE about that person, that's what you would do....and what's more, to realize that this person, Kurt, is 21 and should have a right to make his own choices about music, etc....which no one in the Hall or his family even HEARS.......

There were times when I felt I was being 'shunned' by a friend and found out early in life that the only way to take care of that problem was I'd ask her "Did I do something to offend you?" In situations like that, you never accuse, you ask......she'd say I did, I'd ask what I'd done, she'd explain it, we'd talk and get the crap out of the way, I'd apologize and things were good b/t us again........

To me, friendships/relationships are just to important to toss aside - that person just can't be replaced by someone else.....and Kurt's grandma, Lynn, will be finding out the painful way that her JW mentality could very likely cost her a beloved grandson if she doesn't wake up and smell the coffee. She had told Gail she couldn't/wouldn't talk to Kurt, "but when he marries and has children, then I'll talk to him......" holy crap! By the time that happens, yrs may have gone by and she'll just be a distant memory to him.....

Gail was so furious she shouted 'I bet if the elders told her to drink a glass of poisoned Kool-aid, she'd do it!"

Jim Jones is a classic example of how easy it is to brain-wash the gullible.........

 

They did him a favor. I was raised a Jehovah Witness and learned at an early age that I didn't want to grow up like them. As soon as I was old enough to put up a fight, I refused to set foot in a Kingdom Hall. (That's what they call their church!)

Family is who stands by you and DNA has no value. Anyone who would shun their own family is not worth having around.

 

Good for you for breaking away from it and having the strength to do it.

 

Well, actually, I disagree. I'm not saying the specific case in the op was appropriate, but there are ways that shunning can be good. First, there are obvious cases where it may be appropriate. Here, I'd say always approach it from a father's perspective. Sure, you as an adult might say that friendships are too valuable to ever shun, but think of a father whose child has a friend that (let's say at 14) was heavily involved with drugs, gangs, and had sex with strangers - do you want your child to be around them? No. Is it because you don't like the person to be shunned? No. It's because you care about your child's wellbeing, and that is more important than a friendship of theirs.

George Washington spoke about this on an adult level. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, that it is better to dine alone than to do so in bad company. Friends impact you - for your own sake, sometimes you in fact should end friendships because they're a bad influence, and you need to worry about you first.

Sometimes you can shun for someone's own good. Bear in mind, this is relative and based on values, not any objective good (though note, almost anyone with values would say that theirs is the objective good). Old congregations use to do this - when someone walked afoul of their ways they'd shun them until they admitted their wrong and changed their ways. I'm not saying that this is great or that it is the case in the op, I'm simply saying that shunning can serve a positive purpose, both for oneself and for others (the shunned). Not saying someone benefits in every case.

There are people I don't associate with for various reasons, but I think it's easier to see the reasons for shunning from an outsiders perspective - again, seeing why a father would shun a child's friend and tell the child to do the same.

 

Well than what's Holier.? To Shun or not allow oneself be shunned.
This really ain't knowed trick question.Those in the Monastery shun the
public,yet do not shun fellow mankind.I can shun the movie theatre
but not movies.Shunning is a very personal thing.Like being a bigot.

 

Ok..... you're absolutely right. When I said 'shunning for any reason is despicable', I wasn't thinking about raising my 3 kids and at times when they were teens, if the occasion called for it, I would say something like "Show me your friends and I'll show you your future". Your kids choice of friends is important b/c of the influence one can have on the other and parents need to stay on top of that.....so I stand corrected on that. When you tell your kid to stay away from another, who you know is a shoplifter, as an example. well.....then shunning the shoplifting kid is not only ok, but necessary.......

When I said 'friendships/relationships are to important to toss aside', I should have been more specific, b/c sometimes you have to let a friendship go b/c you're finding out it really isn't a friendship. I meant yrs, even decades long friendships that sometimes hits a bump in the road and needs to be smoothed out by communication.....

I had written that post kinda fast b/c I was going to meet Gail for lunch and obviously didn't put much tho't in what I was saying.........

But shunning a church/hall member b/c of their choice of music, yeah! That's despicable and even moreso when his mother, stepdad, siblings and grandma turns their backs on him.......

Not only the JW;s, but the Amish and Church of Scientology are known for shunning . Recently I watched a program about Scientology - holy crap! They're vicious....especially the ring-leader.

 

Oh yeah, sometimes we speak too adamantly and universally when we feel strongly about a situation. I totally get that.

 

Of course I would question their taste in music (or lack there of) but that's always subjective.

For a proper penance they would have to listen to Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon, Joe Satriani - Extremist, Led Zepplin - I thru IV and Metallica - Master of Puppets, but that's just me.

 

The point is, all kinds of music is part of our culture. If a JW is driving alone, by him/herself and listens to rap - who the hell should care?

And what really doesn't make any sense - Why would any JW care if one of their own, JW Prince - his music was playing on another JW's car radio?

IIRC, Michael Jackson was also a JW......that nut would grab his crotch after every show.

 

And the beat goes on............Kurt is still being shunned by family, but his grandma Lynn did speak to her sis, Gail and asked her to keep Kurt in her life b/c she, this one-time loving grandma, just couldn't b/c then she wouldn't be able to 'live forever in Paradise'...or some such tripe....

Whatta religion and sure has an ugly side to it.....

 

No, I rap and I'm a Catholic..... I come from a huge family (first cousins, aunts, uncles there are like 150 of us) no one has really ever judged me ever.... Of course they're not all fans of rap but I would always be welcome... Heck half of my family are progressives and we argue all the time but I would always be welcome in their homes.

I couldn't even imagine a situation where I was actually "shunned"....

 

As a Catholic we don't "shun" anyone... Everyone is welcome at my Church.... I'm not even confirmed.... I don't know if they would marry me but I wouldn't be turned away from Mass.

I know they didn't want to marry my sister and her husband until he converted (which he did).... But he wasn't even baptized.

 

My mom is a libertarian devout Catholic and she's not a rap fan but it wouldn't be unusual if she was jamming er rocking out to Alice and Chains or Classic Rock - she was like my age when that came out anyway, perhaps even younger......

No one in my family gives two craps about what type off music people listen to.....

I will say this much tho - it's kinda weird when you and your parents jam out to the same tunes lol.... (*)(*)(*)(*), me and my parents drink together like buddies.... They're in their early 60's but they grew up in the 60's/70's and I'm 36..... Of course they're still my parents but..... They're successful people and I'm an adult so.... Of course we're not peers but I'm an adult and..... Well they're cool and Christian....

 

I can't either. To me, it's a form of bullying. Not to mention, it's so judgmental and downright cruel. It's throwing someone you love away, literally casting them out of your life b/c they enjoy an innocent activity that doesn't harm anyone else.

I really hope that this is a wake-up call to Kurtis and he just quietly walks away from the hall, the shunners and surrounds himself w/those who love him for himself and not what kind of music he does or doesn't listen to......how shallow can people get?

 

It is my view that for Christians, many, perhaps more than a few, believe they belong to the right religion. I never will understand shunning. It was explained to me by my deceased former wife, yet to me it was more bad than good.

Excommunication is very different. That is removal for cause and includes a meeting, a hearing, by church leaders to decide if the member is in the wrong place since they show all signs of not agreeing. Every now and then, I am told my church has booted some member out. For instance, say a woman member makes it open she wants her kids to have premature sex. We read on this forum,. Democrats speak that some adult, just not them, should teach their kids sex education. They must not be able to do this for their kids. But this woman wants promiscuous kids and it is very clear to the church this is her aim.

I put Democrats into this class.

But this can't be all Democrats since about 20 percent of my church is Democrats. I have a fine friend who is a democrat who loathes the notion of children gone promiscuous.

 

Well I think it makes me take my life for granted knowing I have family and friends that actually love me...

Yea I don't get along with some family but I'm always welcome.... I mean we can put our differences aside and be family, but I can still be me....

 

is that like being on other peoples ignore list because I have lots of experience

 

"Ignore", "shun" - yeah, pretty much the same thing, but in the shunning case, the orders came from the leaders of a church, telling the brain washed congregation to shun that person b/c of his 'sin' and they obeyed.....yet at the pulpit, they're preached the Golden Rule......

 

yes the hypocrisy truly sad

 

Well, I'm not exactly a part of the church community - I go on occasion so I don't know about the inner workings of the Church..... My niece and nephew go to their Catholic school.

Oh I know what excommunication means..... I just don't see it happening at my church...

I don't see most Catholics excommunicating anyone..... We get a father like once every three years and they're not usually from the US.... My church is kind of a training ground and it's not communal... It's a Roman Catholic church so.... The present Father plays fantasy football and loves sports like any guy and incorporates his hobbies into his sermons so it's pretty liberal but also conservative....

 

I don't have a church or a religion, so I shun them.

 

Shunning is a form of judgment, and once one comes to understand that how one judges another says more about the judge than the judged then it really changes ones perspective. Personally when I am shunned or chastised for harmless action I am in a way glad as the biased have just identified themselves to me. I mean why would I even want to be associated with such shallow individuals anyway? No great loss to me as I see it.

 

I'm glad I don't go to any churches so I don't have to deal with any of that kind of stuff. I live my life, I have my friends of my choosing, and nobody bothers me.

 

You're right. Some people are so shallow and hypocritical. As of today, Kurtis' parents, siblings and grand mother still haven't talked to him. This is happening over rap music and Prince, composer and singer of rap was a JW himself.....and I think Michael Jackson also. Would the JW's have shunned those 2? Hell, no! Gail l& I are still hoping that he will just move on and build a contented life for himself, surrounding himself w/people who don't buckle under to a church leaders demands.