"Skeptics," Science, Spirituality and Religion

There are vicious jerks on the internet of every stripe. Don't confuse people in the "YouTube comments section" with reality.

Notice that he doesn't provide any solid evidence of any spiritual experiences?

You never explained how it is dishonest. If you are so open-minded then I have a lot of Buddhist experiences proving reincarnation, spiritual experiences of the Prophet Joseph Smith, some fine people who have been abducted by aliens that I want you to meet, and some very scared families who have had the misfortune of living in a haunted house. Maybe it is wise to demand physical evidence for such extraordinary claims rather than any claim anyone makes on their word alone.
https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/1978/01/miracles-today?lang=eng
https://ideapod.com/scientists-examine-2500-cases-reincarnation-reveal-common-previously-realized/
https://www.csicop.org/sb/show/close_encounters_with_alien_abductions
https://www.someecards.com/news/so-that-happened/real-life-ghost-stories/

I notice that you don't go into any detail into your experiences. If you want to use your experiences as evidence, then go ahead and get on with it. If not, then don't keep bringing up these incredible experiences like they refute skeptics.

 

You are still approaching this from a conceptual ideal of a 3rd-person perspective. True spirituality has something in common with actual reality that science can't touch in that it is a "1st-person" reality. It's even closer than that...it's a 0-person perspective.

Time, space and energy are very interesting, I could go on for days, but it's missing the point of actual reality, which is not just in-quantifiable in "physical" terms but also conceptually, and in the end, physics and science is a dragon chasing it's tail because complete reality involves consciousness and awareness, a first-person perspective. Quantum mechanics is dancing toward this reality, though interpretations are still woefully trying to paint the picture of a third-person view.

The actual nature of reality involves a collapse of the observer/observed framework into a realization that all conceptual designs of thought are fabricated to the point of taking a step to far. Reality, as it is, is self-actualized, pristine and beyond concept or identification.

 

Can you go into evidence of how you feel about this? Can you objectively show me how you disagree with this, because i don't see any objective evidence of these idea's. Sounds like you think you think you are having a "credible" experience (disagreeing with a notion of a 1st-person reality) as compared to having an "in-credible" experience of realizing the reality of nature from the 1st-person point of view. The scientific notion lacks in this regard. Reality. itself, is, the first-person point of view. The conceptual model of science is secondary. The map is not the territory, and it's blasphemy to apply fabricated frameworks and mindworks onto the very essence of actual reality without realizing you are doing so.

There is a materialistic ideal: "The only thing that is real can be objectively proven"- that concept itself is only a subjective value-claim and does not exist in material at all. To prove anything involves consciousness and data has reality outside of a subjective mind to actualize it.

This whole authoritative demand that things be proven by a conceptual viewpoint can't even prove itself. We have reached the point where science needs to integrate the first-person perspective...I tend to be optimistic as were the greatest minds in physics. From the genius of Niels Bohr to David Bohm, to Hawking and Thomas Hertog...they know there is no escaping the first-person point of view. reality can't contrive a fabricated facsimile of itself that is true.

 

You are the one making the big claims about reality, it is up to you to provide the evidence, not me.

 

What is "evidence" to you? An object? Something physical that we can both observe with our eyes?

 

I think you would need to determine what you want to present as evidence for your ideas.

I'd point out that in science, one looks for experiments to be able to be repeated by different unrelated groups. Thus one attempts to remove the narrowly subjective.

That seems to point in the direction of a reasonably logical bar for what constitutes evidence.

 

I do not know what you mean by solid evidence. I said what I have experienced.

It is dishonest because you are demanding a higher standard of proof than you do for other situations. There is a lot of evidence that Buddhist paths work. The others you talk about all have evidence for existing. Now I cannot expect you to read me on my word, but I can say what I have experienced, and I have. For me the things that I have experienced is evidence enough. If it's not for you, I am still looking for ways to make it so.

I don't understand what you mean by "go ahead and get on with it." I have written about my experiences and their implications.

 

Exactly right, and the experiment IS a meditative or contemplative practice. Take zen, for example, meditate and look directly into awareness to it's nondual essence until you realize your original nature. Meditation is the injunction, which is verifiable/falsifiable, and you can report your realization to a group of peers if you like to compare/verify/falsify experiences. For those who questioned Galileo's assertions of it's moons orbit, they had to have the experience of looking through the telescope.

There really isn't much from keeping those in philosophy of mind from discovering its true nature but one critical point: they refuse to look at mind, experience or awareness from the 1st-person point of view. Instead they treat mind like it's a material object and only view it from the 3rd-person point of view.

 

The catch with meditation is that there is no method of independent or objective measurement.

What was seen in the telescope could be measured independently and objectively.

 

Exactly. That's what Thermosteller Nuclear Bomb #20 said.

 

I’ve experienced spiritualism for several years that I can not control or get to stop. It has been considered a mental disorder by societal phsycologists. It’s become a problem by negatively affecting my professional life. It has continually refuted science and produced delusional, lying thoughts.
I’m not sure if anyone has experience like this for advice. I don’t know how to stop it other than wait for time or certain events or settlements to occur. It’s extremely unnatural, frustrating and negatively affecting.

 

I think you are dead wrong.

Reality has a nature that is definable through meditative or contemplative excursions that releases

What is "spiritualism" to you and how exactly is it affecting you?

 

God is a spirit and so is the devil; and if I'm getting your drift, I daresay what you're experiencing is not unusual, which is why so many people are addicted to drugs sold to them by pushers who are also licensed psychiatrists.