So here's the thing: Oil, Coal and Gas are Natural elements of the earth. So it is natural energy

CO^2 does not cause famine, quite the opposite. Every bit of food grown is the conversion of CO^2 into life.

 

Well, oil- and coal-fired power plants were not part of the country's energy mix before, and then all of a sudden it was, correct?

 

Lol… come on, this is just a troll thread. Why should anyone take you seriously?

 

Unfortunately plants need more than CO2 to grow. Can’t grow if there is a drought or a flood and that is what the disruptions in climate are doing. We are seeing weather patterns oscillating between record breaking droughts and record breaking floods

 

We're seeing oscillation between El Nino and La Nina

https://www.climate.gov › enso
El Niño & La Niña (El Niño-Southern Oscillation) | NOAA Climate.gov
'Niño and La Niña have weaker impacts during Northern Hemisphere summer than they do in winter. Summer impacts include warm conditions in northeastern Australia and cooler than average conditions across India and Southeast Asia. More About el Niño ENSO's cascade of global impacts The Walker Circulation'

 

Well?

 

You could argue that everything on earth is natural. Even vinyl chloride.

Humans are natural to earth, anything we make using things from earth is natural.

It sort of makes the entire concept of "natural" irrelevant.

 

I would say wind and solar pipe dream the second to the government subsidies go away they fold like a house of cards. You get into wind and seller because you want to make money off of the government.

The single greatest green advancement in human history has been fracking because it made natural gas so cheap that they converted power plants to run on it and it reduced emissions greatly. Nuclear could do that but there is a drawback nuclear waste and it remains dangerous for 20,000 years. I think there needs to be innovations done with nuclear to try and mitigate the danger of the waste. But there's a problem there every time you go to do that you're going to better against an executive order written by Jimmy Carter in 1971. It forbids doing anything with nuclear waste except for just stuffing it in a hole for future generations to have to do with. Or maybe stumble upon accidentally.

Mixed is good nuclear natural gas and coal great options geothermal hydroelectric when you can get it.

Electric isn't the generation of the energy it's the consumption of it.

 

Exactly. Humans should never place themselves above the earth. We are a natural part of it. Some want to pretend we aren’t part of the animal kingdom. It’s as misguided as the notion that humans are not natural, so anything we do is supernatural.

We may be at the top of the food chain, but we aren’t out of it.

Cats are out of the food chain, but they are also aliens, so it all works out.

 

Absolutely no one, ever, has argued that coal and oil aren't natural. I think you are very confused, or building a straw man. Many people out there are fighting for RENEWABLE energy (which oil and coal are not) and CLEAN energy (both oil and coal are not very clean at all (though cleaner than say, peat)).
Natural Energy as a term in energy production, means nothing. No one is denying that oil and coal are produced in nature naturally. But of course no one out there was claiming that that was the problem.
Do me a favour and google 'natural energy'. Notice that nothing comes up about the production of energy (bet you the top ten hits are vitamin supplements).

So yes, oil and coal are natural. They are not clean or renewable. That is the actual argument.

 

No. Both oil & coal were already in use. You couldn't have googled this yourself?

 

"Not everything needs to have some grand ideology embedded in it."

Virtually every nation on earth, informed by climatological experts, acknowledges the reality. None is governed by your "hippies."

Are the consequences of all sources of energy equal? Of course not. Climate change caused by the burning of fossil fuels and its adverse consequences are irrefutable.

Progress demands transitional changes.

Ask any unemployed harpooner.

 

There's zero empirical evidence that climate change is caused by the burning of fossil fuels alone. And there's ample empirical evidence of climate change prior to the industrial revolution. So that talking point doesn't really hold.

 

You need flowing water.

 

So more and more plant type things and less and less concrete and asphalt type things would be a benefit.

 

Who is claiming that climate change is caused by burning of fossil fuels alone?

As climatologists have proven, just as they have proven the rapid acceleration of climate change since the industrial revolution.

​

It is irresponsible for ideologues to deny the science.
​

When fossil fuels are burned, they release large amounts of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, into the air. Greenhouse gases trap heat in our atmosphere, causing global warming. Already the average global temperature has increased by 1C. Warming above 1.5°C risks further sea level rise, extreme weather, biodiversity loss and species extinction, as well as food scarcity, worsening health and poverty for millions of people worldwide...

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has found that emissions from fossil fuels are the dominant cause of global warming. In 2018, 89% of global CO2 emissions came from fossil fuels and industry.

[https://www.clientearth.org/latest/latest-updates/stories/fossil-fuels-and-climate-change-the-facts/]​

 

The unprecedented rise in global temperature cannot be blithely ignored.

​

In June, sky-high temperatures in the Pacific Northwest killed as many as 600 people. Several hikers have been found dead in California in recent weeks, most likely because of temperatures that were above 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Globally, July ranked as the hottest month in recorded human history.

So, from my Los Angeles apartment that regularly crosses 85 degrees indoors, I called some climate scientists and asked them, “Is every upcoming summer going to be even hotter than this one?”

The short answer was: Yes, generally.

Vijay Limaye, a climate and health scientist with the Natural Resources Defense Council, told me that each recent decade had been unmistakably warmer than the one before it, so it’s highly probable that future years will continue to break heat records.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/us/ca-summer-climate-change.html]​

 

Well, oil- and coal-fired power plants were not part of the country's energy mix before, and then all of a sudden it was, correct?

 

but it's a finite source of energy, not a renewable source of energy

 

Did you miss my reply?

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-natural-energy.602314/page-5#post-1074137649

 

Well you referred to the law that Germany passed to "bring back oil- and coal-fired power plants into the country's energy mix?" Keywords: "bring back." I was basing what I said on the assumption that you were speaking accurately. If they did NOT pass such a law, then I guess Germany did NOT "bring back oil- and coal-fired power plants into the country's energy mix." So please clarify.