So, ultimately, who's responsibility is it?

Read the OP again......

Anyone who receives government aid that's capable of attaining the same items on their own. I'd say about 90-95% on government aid.

Anyone who receives government aid that's capable of attaining the same items on their own. I'd say about 90-95% on government aid.

Because handing someone something they could have attained on their own robs them of the ability to become self sufficient, which is the VERY BASIC building block of self esteem.

Not to mention it's FORCEFULLY taken by government from those who rightfully earned AKA armed robbery, which ALSO causes harm.

If YOU REALLY CARED, you'd take all your harmful endeavors and invest them into providing education. Something that actually empowers people instead of enables.

 

You want everyone to take personal responsibility for their situation - Cant start picking an choosing which situations qualify, that just makes you a hypocrite

 

BOTH A & B

The government provides things like a virtually free K-12 education but in turn this education should prepare students for employment if they are not likely to have future options due to poverty for example. But students and families need to abuse this in the good way as a benefit to become employable.

 

I don't believe I ever did. Perhaps you can show me the hypocrisy of my ways......

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Education is nowhere near virtually free..... We spend in the top per capita and get (*)(*)(*)(*) results. We need to gut our entire education system and start over gearing it more towards preparing children for upcoming job opportunities.

 

You mention geography in your opening rant

 

And that's hypocritical how?

 

Well clearly people should take personal responsibility not to live in areas where they can be financially wiped out. Dont want poor destitute people cluttering up your tax return. And I am interested you never responded to my question about how good poor people had it before there was welfare.

 

I see no hypocrisy you've pointed out. Perhaps you could explain a little further......

Your question's invalid as we're living in a completely different society than then. These days "poor" people have flat screen TV's, cars and cell phones.

 

And? I own a car I paid $250 for - A Cell phone was $40.00 and our flat screen was $55.00 on black Friday - And I am not poor

 

It is for the student and parents.

 

Thanks for invalidating your own point!

By the way, still waiting for you to back up your claim of hypocrisy. Dog ate it?

 

OREALLY???? So I pay $2400 a year in property taxes alone? Is THAT your idea of FREE????

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66

$11,184 per student, per year spent not including capital outlays and interest in 2009-2010

THAT is NOT free......

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I love how people who pay ZERO net taxes thing everything is FREE!!!!!

 

"DELL, Microsoft and H-P were all started in garages. Clearly people without a garage cannot succeed."

ok, ok maybe a guy with a carport can do ok.

 

My objection is not with welfare money going to those seeking a 'free ride', my objection is with the state's method of funding this 'charity' - involuntary appropriation of property.

Charity with other people's property is not charity. It's theft.

 

It is a combination of both depending on the situation.

There is so much one person can do. A person provided they are no longer a child are responsible for things for which they can control. However, for things that are beyond that individual control then it is the role of the government to offer help.


Peace,
JooDee,
Grand Secretary of Bar Sing Say.

 

How about just openly and honestly admitting that you're not applying yourself because it's not a high enough priority?

Homie, you live in the internet age. We have more opportunities today than ever before. Most people just don't even bother looking for them because they're too busy looking for limitations on how far they think they can go. Subconsciously, they're looking for reasons to fail rather than ways to succeed. And you'll ultimately find whatever you're looking for.

 

How abstract of you.

So, you also object to the "involuntary appropriation" that is all tax?
Or just object to the useage of said revenue as mandated by a democratic government thru majority passed legislation?

I find it interesting that there are those that champion individual responsiblity, but seem to completely ignore any collective social responsibility. apparently its a one way street.

 

Why is it the government's role to help? Can you provide the authority that makes this true?

 

Would help include public roads, running water, police, etc? Or should that all be up to the individual as well?

 

Because I said so.

Peace,
JooDee,
Grand Secretary of Bar Sing Say.

 

Nope. All legitimate functions of government but I'll give you a cookie for the effort.

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Well, that's a pretty solid argument there. Carry on!

 

As I mentioned in the other thread, "legitimate" is subjective.

But I'm glad we agree that these things are legitimate. That means that some of the opportunity you take advantage of is the result of government.

You would have considerably fewer opportunities without reliable water service, public roads, or reliable law enforcement.

 

It's subjective if your ethics are subjective.

It's not just me, the general welfare is equal opportunity for EVERYONE, unlike "social" welfare which only benefits those who receive it and even that is debatable.

Again, EVERYONE would have fewer opportunities. Can you explain the opportunity I get from having $5000 of my income confiscated and handed to another?

 

All ethics are subjective.

Sure, but by that definition, that can easily extend to public education and socialized medicine.

That would depend on where the $5,000 is going. Plenty of people pay more than that in taxes every year, and it ends up going to a lot of things.

Whether or not each item is "legitimate" can be argued either way.

 

No they aren't. Go steal a car, get caught, and tell the judge you thought you deserved the car more than the owner. Let me know how that works out for you Mr. subjective ethics.

We already have both.....Public education is available for everyone. Socialized medicine is only available to select groups of citizens.

Ok, how about if that $5000 I EARNED get handed to someone who didn't as an earned(chuckle) income credit to someone who got all their federal income taxes back? Legitimate? General welfare?