So you think homosexuality is a choice?

Yes. Someone tells you they know they know you better than you know yourself, like for instance when they say that your sexual orientation is a choice, it's easy to see why someone be offended by that.

 

Even bisexuals do not choose to be bisexual. But they can choose to ignore their attraction for the same sex and focus on their attraction for the other, which is what I think you meant.

 

Precisely. My point is that anyone who thinks it's a choice, because (whether or not they're willing to admit it out loud), they MADE a choice, are, in face, bisexual. Whether they know it, or not.

 

The Kirk and Madsen created Born That Way hoax has long since been discredited for the hoax it is, but the homosexual left keeps spewing the same scripted psy-ops bigotry lies using Hitlers Big Lie Technique.

Even the creators of the hoax admit is is a lie and they admit why the lie was created and how homosexualists need to repeat the lie.

 

I chose to be a heterosexual and medicine cannot prove otherwise.

I do not like it when the Dr sticks his finger into my anus
Given that experience, I am quite confident that having something even larger inserted into my anus would not be pleasurable

Therefore, I won't try it. I have nothing against you if you find pleasure in it, much like you should have nothing against me because I sleep with women.

I have no doubt in my mind that my environment as a child shaped me to becoming heterosexual. If you want to believe that you were born homosexual then that is your right to believe whatever you wish, the same as I have that right. In the end, neither of us can be proven correct or incorrect

 

Again the "born this way" theory was not started by Hunter and Madsen, and it's not even exclusive to homosexuality. Professionals have been arguing "born this way" for just about every behavior you can think of.

 

How are you defining heterosexual, sec?

 

You're bi. Got it.

Congratulations. So what?

I don't blame you at all, in fact I share your attraction to women. But I didn't choose it, no more than I chose what type of women I'm more into than others. Those attractions are inherent.

And I have no doubt in my mind that you're probably an older so-called "christian" who has been taught your entire life that them queers is "immoral", and you see society going in a different direction and it's freaking you out. Take solace in the fact that your indoctrination has taught you false truths.

 

The Born That Way" hoax to overcome Bowers v Hardwick was definitely created by Kirk and Madsen, they state so, and it is because of those two homosexual leftist community leaders and their psy-ops manifesto being published in the homosexual magazine called Guide, that it became the rallying cry of homosexualists.

These extremist activists learned that if they could make a compelling case that they were "born gay,” they could become eligible for “Minority Status” as a “Suspect Class” under the 1964 Civil Rights Act. If Minority Status were granted, it would force the courts to overturn Bowers v. Hardwick, thus legalizing sodomy.

Kirk and Madsen wasted little time in created a psy-ops propaganda manifesto after the 1988 War Conference in Warrenton Virginia to attack the civil and basic human rights of people and force them to affirm the homosexual acts and its practitioners.

Their "Overhauling Straight America" was the creation of the "Born That Way" hoax.

 

Already done, see Lawrence v. Texas. You must really be hating life.

[video=youtube;wV1FrqwZyKw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=wV1FrqwZyKw[/video]

 

Oh horse s***. I was born way before that and out well before that book you keep mentioning was written. I certainly did not need any book to tell how I was born. I had never heard of it before you brought it up.

 

Viewers, this above is a classic case of denial. Not a denial that he has not read Kirk and Madsens psy-ops Homosexual Agenda propaganda manifesto, as most leftist homosexualists have not, but they do all collectively parrot the same propaganda strategies that Kirk and Madsen authored. Overhauling Straight America and After the Ball are the bibles of the homosexualist left, yet most have never heard or read it.

The propaganda script calls for homosexualists to claim they were born that way. Check
The deception script calls for homosexualists to call everyone who refuses to affirm homosexual politics/behaviors "bigots" Check
The propaganda script calls for homosexualists to call everyone with a different view a "homophobe" Check
The homosexualist bible calls on them to desensitize society by bombarding them with all things homo. Check
The deception guide calls for homosexualists to take "anti-discrimination as its theme" Check
The Homosexual Agenda instructs homosexualists to equate homosexual sex acts with being black and Jewish. Check
The Homosexual agenda calls on homosexuals to position themselves as victims in need of protection. Check
The Homosexual Agenda calls on homosexuals to call all opposition closeted homosexuals. Check
The Homosexual Agenda calls on homosexualists to attack Christians. Check
The Homosexual Agenda calls on homosexualists to "Use Hollywood as our best covert weapon....where we can insert a Trojan Horse" Check
The Homosexual Agenda calls on homosexuals to downplay and deny the homosexual child molestation epidemic, but only at first till they can mainstream it as they are working on. Check

So you leftist homosexualists can bleat all you want about how you personally have never heard of nor read your The Homosexual Agenda bible, but the reality is, you homosexualists as a group are all carrying out the the exact psy-ops deceptive propaganda tactics you claim you have never heard nor read. What an AMAZING coincidence.

 

Right. Some idiots are so obsessed with dehumanizing homosexuals, they miss that we're really HUMAN and they are pursuing a delusion.

 

If that book you love so much is the most solid thing you have to stand on... let me tell you, you're standing on a might shaky foundation.

 

Do you realize how moronic that sounds?

 

Just to clear this up, since my statement seems to be such a big deal to everybody.
The way sec's post before mine was worded, I had the impression he thought I was gay, too. I thought it was fair to clarify that. I believe most of the posters here understood that.

 

So, why does every thread concerning the facts regarding homosexuality end up in this subforum? "Civil rights"? The question posed by the OP has zero to do with "gay rights". It's a question of fact, or biology, or psychology, not civil rights.

But as to the question itself, it seems clear that gay attraction is not voluntary. Some posters here have made it clear that it's something they would choose if they had the choice, however. I am referring to members who are gay, and who have resisted the notion of "change of orientation therapy" even in a hypothetical sense (such as if there were a perfectly functioning method to change orientation). It seems some people don't want there to be a choice.

 

Kirk and Madsen again state why homosexualist must never admit it is a choice even though Kirk and Madsen admitted their "Born That Way" hoax was a lie:


"We argue that, for all practical purposes, gays should be considered to have been born gay--even though sexual orientation, for most humans, seems to be the product of a complex interaction between innate predispositions and environmental factors during childhood and early adolescence." There is their own admission that the Born That Way hoax they created universally used by the radical homosexualist left is a lie.

Now when it comes to why homosexualists are so DEATHLY afraid that their hoax will get exposed, Kirk and Madsen admit their justification for the Born That Way hoax:

"Alas, "To suggest in public that homosexuality might be chosen is to open the can of worms labeled 'moral choices and sin' and give the religious intransigents a stick to beat us with. Straights must be taught that it is as natural for some persons to be homosexual as it is for others to be heterosexual: wickedness and seduction have nothing to do with it."

So there you have it, admissions not for public consumption...from the lying mouths of leftist homosexual community leaders and creators of The Homosexual Agenda themselves.

 

I think there is a subforum for conspiracy theories somewhere on PF. You might want to try there.

 

I believe you are either uninformed or in denial of reality. You demonize homosexuals by creating for them some cult whose leaders? You guessed it: Kirk and Madsen.

Reality: behavioral genetics has been argued for a long time. A.... long..... time..... It is still a theory that is hated by conservative Christians, which is a reason why I'm surprised you deny this. You have an opportunity here to still criticize the "leftists" since behavior genetics has its roots in secular science. A cousin to Charles Darwin, Francis Galton (1822-1911), is thought to be one of the starters of behavior genetics. I'm sure he's never heard or had any prescient knowledge of Kirk and Madsen. Since then behavior genetics has been debated and debated. For and against. Here's an "against" at least in terms of linking behavior genetics to homosexuality: Myths and Misconceptions About Behavioral Genetics And Homosexuality

The article I provided is, I'm sure, only helpful to the conservative argument that homosexuals are not born that way. And of course it comes from NARTH, which is a group dedicated to conversion therapy. So most progay people here (including myself) do not agree with NARTH. It is also important to note, however that NARTH never mentions Kirk or Madsen or "After the Ball". Not in that article and doing a search throughout their site pulls up 0 results.

That being said, again, I do not contest to NARTH. But it seems conspiracy theories like linking the "born this way" idea to something recent and coming to the conclusion that it is exclusive to the homosexual movement, is something that's too crazy for even them to claim.

 

"Homosexualists"? While it's clear what you mean, I've never heard the term before. Who uses it? Is it from a book, a group?

 

Probably the political wing of the "gay mafia".

 

There are so many flaws with the discussion here it is stunning. I am sorry there are people who continue to be confused about their sexuality and so their choosing to sleep with women makes it easier for them to not acknowledge their homosexual feelings. It is a sad culture that makes people suppress their natural desire. Thankfully that is changing. I just feel bad that it hasn't come soon enough for some of the posters here.

But to the flaws of this thread.

1. Sexual behavior does not equal sexual orientation. Physical stimulation to orgasm is only a small part of one's sexuality. A large chunk of what makes sex feel good is mental. That is why porn is used in masturbation, it creates the story and imagery in one's head to enhance the stimulation. Many people think about sex when engaged in sexual behavior that turns them on. Even with a long term lover. The idea that how one stimulates one's genitals fully defines one's sexuality is silly at best.
2. Homosexual behavior in isolated circumstances is not a choice to be homosexual. The image that is brought up often is prison. Yes there is a great deal of homosexual behavior in prison. There is usually two kinds. One is simply for release, this can be seen among heterosexuals in need of physical stimulation. In male prisons this is often done by making the "partners" appear more female. Hair, make up etc. Reports indicate that during actually sexual acts, in many cases one sided, the person being stimulated thinks of a female lover or fantasy. It is the "any port in a storm" way of dealing with lack of sexual release. The other is not about sexual desire at all. Prison rape is about power. The rapist is not desirous of the victim sexually or emotionally but chooses to dominate the victim. Using sex is a powerful way to do it.
3. Our sexuality does continue to form in our lifetime, cultural norms define beauty and sexual prowess but certain things are hard wired and studied for decades by anthropologists. While it is hard to tease out nature versus nurture we are quite clear that sexual desire for men or women is clearly innate. There are no "medical tests" because it isn't something we can point to with art of medicine. But sexologists have studied many to find what causes certain biochemical and physical responses in people. It is clear that we can see how deeply the sexual desire is engrained in people.
4. One cannot wake up one day and say "I am going to be sexually attracted to men or women or both or neither" it doesn't work that way. While many of my gay friends have had heterosexual encounters and not a few of my straight friends have done things that I would consider homosexual behavior, their identity is still intact. They are who they say they are. And there is nothing wrong with that.

 

In the culture of the Sambia tribe and others, all boys and men engage in homosexual behavior. Do you think all sambia men were born bisexual, or is instead their culture responsible for all men engaging in homosexual behavior?

 

Well, I cant wake up tomorrow and decide that I prefer vanilla ice cream over chocolate, but still, I am the one choosing chocolate.