Something For Atheists to Consider

Because a giant crushed auto IS just a metallic cube that used to be a car. Because calling the compressed matter in the singularity the universe is like calling a single sperm a human being.
It would be disingenuous to call what existed before the universe the universe because it's a contradiction in terms.

Did you notice the 98% of the link that supported the author's conclusion? The universe indeed had a beginning and it's been detected by science
and to claim otherwise is about as anti scientific as it gets.

That's some neat trick, giving evidence of nothing.
"Evidence of nothing" is the sort of contradiction in terms that I personally would be embarrassed to ask for.

 

You have not corrected me. You have maintained that I am incorrect when I say that you are guessing and pretending.

But you are guessing when you assert "it is more likely that there are no gods than that there are any"...and you are pretending when you deny that you are guessing.

No problemo.

My argument is rock solid. You have not come close to "defeating" it...although you spend considerable time pretending that you have.

I'm sure you do not mind that I am enjoying watching the pretense.

The "analogy" (which is not really an analogy at all) does not even impact on my argument, let alone show it to be absurd. For the record, I do not make absurd arguments...and this particular argument is not an exception.

 

Of course I have.

because you are incorrect.

I don't do guessing.

your argument was defeated.

I don't pretend.

I don't mind anything you do frank.

it shows how absurd your argument is because the analogy is identical.

from your posting history I agree you USUALLY don't make absurd arguments. This particular one however, is absurd.

 

Then you understand why the claim that "nothing existed" is idiotic. There is zero evidence to support that claim and it is directly contradicted by the laws of physics.

 

Stop insulting me by attributing crap to me that I am not doing Frank. Your posts are hypocritical.

Ask your question, I have told you I will answer it when you do.

 

You claim that...but you haven't. I'm amazed you are still maintaining that you have. You sound as though there is more to you than you are showing here.

I most assuredly am not.

When you say it is more likely that there are no gods than that there are...YOU ARE GUESSING.

Not even close. My argument is rock solid.

You are pretending right here.

Okay.

The "analogy" is not even an analogy...let alone identical. (Analogies are never identical!)

I do not make absurd arguments...EVER. Some of my arguments turn out to be incorrect (or deviate from total correctness a bit)...and when I discover that, I do the ethical thing...I acknowledge that I was wrong and usually offer an apology. But even the arguments that prove to be incorrect...are not absurd.

My arguments in this thread are neither incorrect nor absurd.

You ought to give that a try.

 

You are given to insulting posts, William. I've called that to your attention...to which you reply with further insulting postings.

My posts are not hypocritical at all.

I have asked my questions...after answering several of yours. I have asked them at least four times now.

Answer them...if you can.

 

You are given to posts that insult the whole forum with their content or lack of.

Ask your question and, as I have already positively committed Frank, I will answer it.

If you have nothing further of substance then, we can go on to discuss how you do guess about reality...

 

Once again you are indulging your need to be rude and insulting.

Fine...if that is what you need.

I have asked my questions several times.

Answer them...don't answer them. When you do, we can move on.

When you answer my questions, we can move on.

 

When anything has no evidence of existing after thousands of years of examination and has ample evidence of fabrication in evidence it can easily be assumed to be false. While it can be further examined (and should be) the existing possibilities must be dismissed as inaccurate hypothesis.

Basically, science has clearly shown ALL manmade versions of the "God" entity to be baseless, yet leaves open the possibility of eventually noting one.

 

ANYONE suggesting that it is more probable/likely that there are no gods than that there are any...is guessing...just as ANYONE suggesting that it is more probable/likely that there is at least one god than that there are none...IS GUESSING.

In order for it to be more than a guess...one would have to calculate the probability or likelihood of "no gods exist" and "gods exist"...and then compare the numbers.

I defy anyone here to show the calculations.

As you can see, Tecoyah...there is one person here in the thread who has determined that it is more likely that there is at least one god...and a few others who have determined that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there are gods.

I, on the other hand, am asserting that both those camps are spouting guesses...almost certainly motivated by the initial guess that "there is a god" or "there are no gods."

Nothing wrong with guessing...and in a way, nothing wrong with not being adult and ethical enough to acknowledge one is guessing when one is.

I prefer to acknowledge stuff like that, though...and kinda laugh at people who can't or won't.

 

This commentary in no way effects what I stated. It would seem to me at least that you are arguing points from a position you do not much care to admit to, which complicates the discussion. Basically you accuse others of guessing about the God issue while guessing about the God issue and hiding what you actually believe for some reason....and not hiding it very well.

I can certainly understand the wish to avoid being labeled religious or the stigma it brings with it....why not just admit it though as your God would hope for?

 

Not at all if you understand, as frequently stated, that there truly was nothing in the context of the universe we all live in and know.

I don't know how many more times I can say that. Of course there was something, but that "something" is nothing like the universe we inhabit.
Take it up with the cosmologists who have established that truism, if you'd like.

 

Not sure what that all means.

If you are suggesting that I am religious in any way...you could not be more wrong.

If you think I am an adherent of that grotesque god described in the Bible...you could not be more wrong.

So...what are you saying...and why are you not saying it rather than hinting at it?

Perhaps you are worried about a "God"...since you capitalize the word.

I am not...not in any way.

 

OTOH, some "guesses" are more informed than others. Seems to me that existing human notions of god and our interactions with "him" especially those that were formulated thousands of years ago in an age of profound scientific ignorance should be re-examined in light of our scientific enlightenment. Natural disasters attributed to god's direct intervention is a bit much to accept given our current scientific understanding, as incomplete as it may still yet be. Plagues and droughts by god's hand? Bacteria and viruses and climatology - oh my. this strongly implies that the ancient descriptions of god's awesome powers and his direct intervention were nothing more than explanatory metaphors of ignorance.

Anyway that's my guess.

 

That would be like saying after Ice melts and becomes steam, prior to the steam there was no water.

Just because form changes, that means nothing. The substance is still the same. It is not "nothing".

 

I capitalize the word God because many Christians become offended when I do not. I assumed you have a God due to past commentary and the general attitude you project reminding me very much of many bltchy Christians with persecution complex. Personally I couldn't care much less about your position on fairytale realities, but felt the need to provide commentary as is often done in an internet debate forum.

 

Some may be. But ALL guesses...are guesses!

My personal guess is that if there are gods...humans do a miserable job of describing them.

Humans tend to go for the reward/punishment/need to be revered kind of gods.

I think those kinds of gods suck...and I certainly would never pretend love, adoration, or worship for any of them.

We agree. That is a joke. But as I mentioned above...humans suck at this kind of thing.

Yup.

What is your guess???

 

You capitalize the word god because you capitalize it. No need to explain. Do it...don't do it. Makes no difference.

Stay away from assuming. It obviously is not your forte.

And stay away from bltchy posts like this last one of yours.

I do not speak to fairtales.

I do speak to the mystery of the true nature of the REALITY of existence...and about how little we humans seem to know about it, despite the fact that so many humans seem unable to acknowledge they do not know.

 

What in God's name is wrong with you?
How many times must I underline the relevant words and repeat myself? Just keep it to yourself from now on.
I'm through wasting my time on comments for your benefit. Have a nice day, forever.

 

You want to argue semantics. You want to try and argue that just because the universe had a different form than it does now prior to Big Bang that it was "nothing". But that position is absurd. The universe has always existed in form or another. That is what the laws of physics requires unless you have figured out a way around the law of conservation of matter/energy.

 

EXISTENCE itself is something.

Existence!

It would seem there has never been a time when existence did not...exist.

Existence seems to be the true eternal...with no beginning and no ending.

Tough to even contemplate.

Lots of "I do not know"s should be heard here.

 

please explain how it isn't an analogy. the easter bunny and god have the exact amount of evidence in support of their existence.

demonstrated otherwise.

this one is. You are trying to claim the probability or likelihood of a god or gods existing is equal to them not existing. If you say this, you would then have to say the probability or likelihood of the easter bunny existing is equal to it not existing. Both are absurd statements.

proven otherwise.

 

You have not expressed it as an analogy, Rahl...you have simply asked me questions about the Easter Bunny.

In any case, even if you were too make an analogy of it...I will not discuss it. Atheists want to divert to all these things because they are unwilling to acknowledge that we do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence...so we cannot say categorically that this thing we humans call "the universe" is not a creation.

A creation implies a creator...a creator is manifestly a god of some sort.

If you want to discuss Easter Bunnies...do it with a two year old or a fellow atheist. Both groups seem fascinated with them.

Baloney. But if it makes you feel good about yourself to suppose my arguments are absurd...go for it.

No...my argument on this issue is rock solid...and not absurd in any way.

Since I am claiming I can think of no way to determine the probability or likelihood of either of those things...how on Earth can you be making that statement.

I DO NOT KNOW THE PROBABILITY of gods existing...AND I DO NOT KNOW THE PROBABILITY of there being no gods.

I cannot compare which is greater than the other...or if they are equal.

And neither can you...if you would only open your mind.

But you and YBF seem to think you can dream up a probability scenario and sell it.

IF you want to talk about Easter Bunnies, I suggest you seek out some two year old kids...or some atheists of any age. Both groups seem fascinated by Easter Bunnies.

I am not...and I am not going to discuss them with you.

The existence or non-existence of any of the things you mention does not impact on the question: In the REALITY of existence...do gods exist or are there no gods?

Get that...refuse to get it. Makes no difference to me.

If you want to consider my arguments to be incorrect and absurd for whatever reason you would want to do that...knock yourself out. It is okay with me for you to think that way.

But if you are going to assert that my arguments are incorrect and absurd...you are going to get blow-back.

So...here we are.

 

Posts the man that makes claims of other people being insulting. The hypocrisy of this post is startling.