Barroso delivers the State of the Union 2013 as the economy in Europe finally starts to recover in all members, including Greece and Portugal. [video=youtube;LfDqrH2KV3s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfDqrH2KV3s[/video] What are your thoughts on this?
Would it be too much trouble not to copy everything from the US? You know, just so that it wouldnt be too obvious what the goals here are.. Barroso is a clown and hes not worth listening to.
Chill down... If you don't like Barroso in particular then vote for another EC president. Direct elections starting next spring.
Why do I have to wait until next spring to ask you where you'd read that there'd be direct elections for the EC president starting next spring. In not answering my question, I can only assume you made it up!
Because in the same way I anticipated the content of the 2012 State of the Union Address before it actually took place. Same goes for MEPs' ideas put forward that Autumn. Not everything is put down on paper you know...
Vlad, an observant child could anticipate the content of Barroso's speeches. Whatever the problem, and however he dresses it up, 'more Europe' is always his answer. Of course not everything is put down on paper, but something as momentous as European citizens being allowed to directly elect the EC president would certainly have been at least reported on. These proposals, designed to increase embarrassingly low voter participation, are the nearest we have come so far, but even they don't mean we'll be able to 'vote for another candidate' as you suggest. As always the EU and its supporters want democracy kept at arms length.
The Dutch had their kind announcing yesterday "the end of welfare state" , record unemployment in France and the usual suspects , € = $1.36 , Italy is ruled by a government of clowns to push working class raping "reforms" and this piece of art Barosso has the testicles to address the union , how nice .
Not at the moment. Economy is getting better. Fast integration was only a solution proposed in response to the crisis. This was a really moderate speech compared to the last one, don't you see? Look at the MEPs and all the leading pro-EU voices. They have stopped talking about federalism ... for now. But first of all, if it hasn't been reported to you in particular it doesn't mean it hasn't been reported. This is complicated, just like all EU treaty changes and up until now, it's been subject to delay like other debated ideas but hope is it will come by next year. But it was Munqi that I was talking to. Sorry this one slipped from me and it wasn't meant for you, so don't ask for evidence because I did not intend to bring any anyway. This forum is for personal, rather subjective opinions of anyone... and not a board meant to share things accurate guaranteed. You have CNN, BBC World News plus a lot of time to wait for that. Barroso will not be the EC president after 2014. That is very unlikely. But as said above, there are loads of traditional problems with direct elections. The Germans i. e. are the most numerous people in Europe together with some other pro-German nations. So question is what if the German candidate will win the elections all the time? This is one potential problem... making direct elections fair without actually forbidding or setting new restrictions is a challenge since the EU was created; making the elections viable without actually having to forbid Germany from proposing candidates and without creating controversy about German world aspirations is tricky. But for now, we have this election system by representatives, like in Britain. SO why do you complain so much about it? The Council elects the president from the majority from the results of the elections. But it is Britain's fault for not having a prominent member in the EPP (European People's Party). Why? I know this party has had and will have majority again and again, but what can you do? It's Europe that is shaped like this not the EU in itself. You might criticize this European political party for its federalist views. It is indeed the soul of all the EU I agree. But why is there no British involvement in it? You once responded to me that you believe in international equality and that federalism in itself is not bad but the people who propose it can be bad or anti-democratic. In this case, if you say that, then why are there no British people in this party to maybe become EC president and make the whole idea, the whole concept more accommodated to British affairs? Why? That is the big question... If you as a nation want to wait for direct elections, then there is indeed the risk as you say, for us to have to say to you 'Dream on!'. So both the pro-EU side and EU-skeptic side have this desire in common... direct elections, right? Then why do we not reach an agreement?? If we have this in common, then why do we not solve it? It's mysterious to say the least. This is where the honesty of the British euroskeptic side becomes questionable. Somewhere in this system, somewhere in some area you are not sincere I suspect. Of course you will say the EPP is too corrupt to be worth the effort. Does this mean you just wait and watch the EPP strangle you, to quote you? Then do something about it... you're one of Europe's big three countries yet you complain of being weak in front of them. First, you can't claim to know even an approximation on the degree of corruptness of political figures and organizations... you can't, you're just common citizens and even they, in any given situation, will not know everything about each other and manipulate each other ('they' - all the politicians be they British, Canadian or Japanese within the same country or not). Now I'd like to remind you of your beliefs in papers (manifestos and treaties) and by the way I might show you some treaty articles in regards to another matter in a new thread for discussion soon. But for now, to get back to our point - direct elections of EC president, and because you like paper, I'd like to ask: Have you read EPP's manifesto? Probably yes. One of its main goals is to establish direct elections. If this is what you want, then why do your Britons run away from EPP? How can we agree and not agree at the same time, eh?
Vlad, you seem to be confusing me up with someone who thinks the EU wants to be or can be democratically run. I didn't say I wanted direct elections for the EC president. I don't. I just want out. I just asked you for the source of your statement about direct elections for the EC president next Spring. I'm entirely free to ask you a question about something you've said, but now I know that your claim was simply your personal opinion, so that's ok. I'm familiar with the EPP manifesto. The EPP is completely supportive of the federalist agenda and in that it runs completely contrary to what the Conservative party (who were formerly the UK's members) claims to stand for at home. Far from running away, its members had to be dragged out of it before their position became an issue at home. Integration will carry on, crisis or no crisis, but the EU never does things quickly.
Funny as usual. British euroskeptics complain that getting out of the EU is so hard, so complicated and that it will take a long time. But in fact it's really not. If you as a nation think the EU is not democratic then simple: no real need to wait for the procedure that takes years... all you have to do is violate the treaty agreements to have your membership suspended and that's it. If you have no respect for the EU then what do you care? As the world power that you say it is, the UK wouldn't need anyone's consent or opinion. But because it does not happen so, it either means public opinion in the UK is divided or it means you lack something else: balls. I noticed how quiet the euroskeptic voices of Europe were this year, after the 2013 State of the Union. Nigel Farage too is so quiet. Haven't heard a single word from him. Of course... The crisis is ending, the European Union didn't tear apart, nor did it worsen anything in the European economy. The Euro and the EU didn't collapse as Nigel Farage predicted. The EU grew this summer by one new state: Croatia. Latvia has also signed all the papers to join the Eurozone. Like I said there will be a day when Nigel Farage will want to wear a shopping bag on his head to avoid being recognized. Show me any statements by him about the EU, recent ones, if you find any. Find some as pompous as the ones he made last year. Nigel Farage is now with his tail between his legs. What a shame.
Some people like us to believe they are 'eurosceptics' but they aren't really worth much. Some people here call them 'europlastics' and usually they are to be found in the Conservative Party. What we lack more than anything else is a balanced public debate so that the electorate can make an informed decision. The EU supporting parties don't want such a debate, but even without it UKIP has had more success than ever because more people than ever distrust our traditional parties and have access to news outside of mainstream sources. Nigel Farage has been anything but quiet. His speeches in the European Parliament and on British TV are freely available over the internet. What has he said that is pompous? I suppose its too much to ask you to provide some evidence to back up your latest claim? Other UKIP MEPs speeches are also freely available. Here's Farage in answer to 'Barroso's State of the Union' speech: [video=youtube_share;aylLhPHI1TI]http://youtu.be/aylLhPHI1TI[/video] If that's him with his 'tail between his legs' I'm sure you don't want to see him in a confident mood. He speaks for me in a way that Barroso or any other integrationist never will. (These speeches are also available on the EP channel along with those of all the other MEPS.) How many times have we been told the crisis is ending, yet still more bailouts are given? And frankly, Croatia joining does nothing to enhance the EUs economic credibility, quite the opposite. Its credit rating is now rated as junk by the French controlled Fitch agency.
Already seen that vid. It's about the green policies. Only starts with his classical unelected/ antidemocratic thing as his default introduction and closes it the same way. He says that every single time he speaks in the EP, no matter the topic. Nothing new. The evidence is his sudden lack of comments on the latest developments in the economy!! Barroso's speech was mainly about the economy. And it's not like you're being just told that the crisis is ending. The EU is not the only one saying that. Investor confidence is getting back, positive signs are everywhere. The economy is getting better. Economists say it is, slowly but decisively. You can't speculate on that. Read this. Also read this. The crisis originated in America and resulted in a test to the European Union. It highlighted what the flaws were in the Euro economic system and the EU resisted well, corrected on these flaws and is stronger now.
Did you really watch the video? Did you note the title of the debate shown in its opening shots? The word 'cooling' was a metaphor. And his comments about the 'Green' agenda were pertinent, given the colossal amounts of money EU member states are spending on Green policies. [The UK is going even further than the EU requires and spending £18 billion on green initiatives every single year for the forseeable future. You will know of course how deeply in debt the UK now is? All of our pro-EU parties have the same commitment to green policies. Opposition on the subject is all but dead apart from what UKIP has said.) Farage has commented on the latest developments in the economy and was more sounded rooted in reality than Barroso. Again, how many times have we been told the crisis is over? The eurozone has fundamental problems that will mean more bailouts, but large scale investors won't lose either way; their debtors just get bailed out, remember? The euro can only survive for as long as taxpayers in better off member states patience lasts. Slovenia looks like the next country in line for a bailout. I can certainly speculate on anything europhiles say, and you're wasting your time with a source using the FT as its source. The FT was one of the UK's biggest supporters of the flawed eurozone from its inception and thus it has very little crediblity on the subject as far as I'm concerned. Other economists are a lot more pessimistic. See here: The euro crisis has been on the back burner lately, but the problems facing banks in Slovenia are coming to a head. Billions of euros in bad loans make the country a candidate for the next bailout. No doubt the next bailout will be delivered and we'll be told the crisis is over again.
We will see. It's too early to feel the full effects of the recovery. It will be felt in time. A small economy like Slovenia having problems with its banks is not the end of the world and it's not because of using the Euro! Other European countries that are not in the EU/EZ have proportionally bigger debts like Norway while other small ones that are in the EU/EZ are free of any debt problems like Austria or Estonia, an ex-communist state just like Slovenia. I think Slovenia is just the small earthquake after the big one - small aftereffects. Even when one big problem is ending there's still a lot of debris to clean. Shininess won't just come instantaneously. And it's just talks. They haven't yet accepted the fund.
Here's UKIP's Godfrey Bloom on the financial crisis. He has just had the UKIP whip withdrawn after a series of incidents in which he put things a little to bluntly and offended the sensibilities of our mainstream media. The latest incident is show in the second video. In the present political climate, he's a liability, but he does very often talk sense. [video=youtube_share;hYzX3YZoMrs]http://youtu.be/hYzX3YZoMrs[/video] [video=youtube_share;jzPBn5SLcxE]http://youtu.be/jzPBn5SLcxE[/video]
